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Comrade 04/13/2020 (Mon) 17:48:06 No. 1045
It is generally understood that programmers don't fancy with worker unions, instead opting for muh individualism. I can't really comprehend it, is the field just filled with Elon Musk worshiping people who think they'll be the next big thing? Why is this? It happens in most countries, not just the USA. Do they not realize they'll get older, too? As a programmer myself, this is really frustrating. The tech workers union in my country is tiny and pointless.
they make too much money
They will be unionized. The 21st century revolution cannot take defeatism like this >>1046
They come under the aegis of the metal workers unions generally Been some successful organizing going on
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I think it's because, yes, many of them believe that they will be the "next muh big thing." But, also, you have to remember most schools don't teach people the values of free and open source software. Most schools teach people how to be perfect little cubical drones for whatever tech conglomerate they land in after they finish school. I think additudes would differ greatly otherwise. For example, I am a programmer and my friend Y is also a programmer. I have never gone to school (yet) I have conditioned myself to be familiar with linux Operating systems and FOSS certified software. Y on the other hand called Linux "annoying" and uses proprietary bullshit like microsoft and is confused by GCC compilers. He says programs should just compile for you. Techies today are streamlined for performance under massive tech conglomerates like google and Microsoft not for working in tandem with other developers. In fact, as par the Marxist tradition and understanding, capitalism actually creates antagonisms between developers as people working for specific brands can't actually work with other competitors of the brand they work under. The economy as it sits today is rigged against us in every way you can imagine. We are conditioned to see ourselves as individuals free from external stimulus not groups of people working for a common goal from the start.
programmers are naturally individualistic, arrogant, and easily replaceable and big tech "lobbies" the US government to allow maximum outsourcing and foreign worker visas
>>1046 I'll refine my position and say they work in an industry with too much money. It's easy for them to see themselves as upwardly mobile, think their skill will always be valuable, etc.. Much simpler to mobilize people stuck in dead ends jobs who can clearly see they're not going anywhere.
>>1050 Programmers being individualistic isn't an inherent trait of programmers, rather, it is a phenomena resulting from the accumulation of capital.
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>>1049 I live in Argentina and the universities I know here (mostly public) are biased towards free and open source software generally, which is great. We even had a "national" GNU/Linux distro called Huayra.
>>1056 Oh my fucking god you lucky bastard. That sounds so nice.
>>1056 >We even had a "national" GNU/Linux distro called Huayra. That's pretty amazing, what happened to it? Has any other country done something like that?
>>1067 We had a welfare program aimed at giving netbooks to every student in public schools, it was called Conectar Igualdad. The netbooks had a dual-boot, Windows and Huayra (I think it defaulted to Huayra, not sure). The program died when the liberal fuck Macri took power in 2015.
>>1075 But isn't the lefty coalition back in government again? Southern cone of south America has an interesting situation. Regionally economically developed, large Communist Parties, radical unions and labor organized. Also relatively safe from nuclear war and climate change. Could you elaborate maybe?
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>>1067 Venezuela had the Canaimitas, which were a series of low-end netbooks with a nationally developed libre OS distributed through public primary schools, mainly to students, teachers and enchufados. That got turned into tablets later on and i don't think either of them are still in distribution/production/whatever. Most people i know personally installed Windows on them or paid/asked someone to do so usually to play cs 1.6, despite their best intentions most people didn't learn how to use Linux nor did the Canaima repos never get updated past a certain point which made installing something else p much necessary.
>>1089 >Capitalism ruins everything yet again.
>>1089 >usually to play cs 1.6 I suppose the console commands could count as coding of sorts. Maybe they have created mods.
>>1053 This is one of the few correct answers. I'd add smugness too. Tech is the craze right now, a lot of them like to pretend they are wizards. Also a lot of them are recent grads that have worked their asses off all their life, and now getting into corporate life means slowing down and pretending to work a lot. Which means always having a nagging feeling that you might get the chopping block. Plus a lot of big tech companies do have annual culling. Hire 10 fire 5. In the US all tech employees are hired as 'at will' which is a sword of damocles.
>>1045 A lot of programmers retards anon. Consider libs with autism.
>>1067 China has literally Ubuntu with chinese characteristics
>>1049 It's a mix bag for me currently. My assembly teacher was a total bitch and forced us to use proprietary everything and made us only program in visual studio. She was in the Navy. My Computer Networking teacher uses Linux for all assignments. He also constantly refereed to the protocol many wireless network use is being "fair and efficient like socialism". Which pissed off a lot of the libertarians in the class. He just laughed it off and said it was a harmless metaphor. So I'm pretty sure he is leftist of some kind.
>>1533 Requesting further info on this pls
>>1542 I think He's talking about Deepin. It's a Chinese distro with it own desktop environment based on Debian. I believe the developers receive basically all of their funds from the Chinese government. Many Chinese laptop vendors have been selling laptops with Deepin preinstalled. You can download the deepin desktop environment on most other distros. It looks pretty good. It seems as if they've switched from GTK to QT since I last tried it. I think I'll give it another look. You can download the distro here. The English translation isn't the best. https://www.deepin.org/en/
>>1533 >>1544 I'm having trouble finding any mention of the Chinese government's involvement anywhere on this.
>>1545 My mistake I thinking he was talking about this Operating System. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kylin_(operating_system) I thought he was talking about Deepin because they get most of their money from government contracts and Chinese conglomerates like huawei.
https://kickstarterunited.org/may-day-severance-agreement/ >On Monday, April 20th, Kickstarter management announced that they were planning company-wide layoffs of ~40% of our workforce The bargaining unit was faced with the prospect of involuntary layoffs with two to three weeks of severance per year of employment in the midst of a global pandemic >Kickstarter United, a mere two months old, swiftly came together to work towards an agreement that protected our unit. After two weeks of bargaining, we negotiated a severance package that we are incredibly proud of, which has been unanimously ratified by KSRU. >The package prioritizes extended severance payments and health insurance coverage, and we were inspired to see dozens of our highest-paid colleagues volunteer to take layoffs in order to save jobs and increase payouts for lower-paid bargaining unit members. We also negotiated additional terms that are previously unheard-of in tech severance agreements, fulfilling another of our longstanding goals: moving our industry forward and demonstrating the necessity of organizing in tech. https://it.slashdot.org/story/20/05/03/0149201/how-kickstarters-new-union-negotiated-terms-for-pandemic-related-layoffs
>Grow up whole life being loner weirdo >Like computers and stuff >Only friends were strangers online >Detest mass media and don't follow any of that shit >Can't even have a non-technical conversation with a normgroid because I don't know what is happening in current events or pop culture >Get industry certs >Now I'm in an office full of normal people Now why would you expect me to now join some workers club? That shit sounds uncomfortable as fuck. I just care about me and my (extended) family, why should I care about John Doe from accounting? I think he's a dick. Why set up a workers union? Bulli my boss so he pays me more? Why the heck would I do that!? I like the guy, he gave me a job and let's me have vidya in the break room. Sure, most admin and a lot of manger jobs are unnecessary and those fags get paid way too much to do nothing but that's not my bosses fault (those jobs are necessary to have w*men in the workforce tbh, completely useless). I was happy with my contract when I signed it and I thoroughly enjoy my job because I get to play with linux all day and copy paste from stack overflow ;) Can someone please explain to me why you guys love FLOSS and "freedom" so much when you support oppressive governments? You leftypol people have always been a mystery to me. Also what's with the positive stance on decentralized services and anti-censorship, I assumed leftypol is against "muh freeze peach" and "muh freedumb"? >why are you even here if not a filthy commie like me I just like posting on all the tech boards, I don't really like your ideology though sorry. Also Jason is an okay dude.
>>2805 Despite the efforts of tankies to purge us, anarchists still use this site.
>>2805 >Can someone please explain to me why you guys love FLOSS and "freedom" so much when you support oppressive governments? I don’t want my data or my privacy to be striped away from me by corporation or governments. Simple as that. Sure, you can allow your data to be tracked by your government, operating system, applications, web browser, websites, search engines, etc, however I do not. I do not support any government present today. We do not believe in the american lie of “freedom of speech” as it is a two-faced lie. At what point does “freedom of speech” become sedation and at what point does feds requiring logs to be published from websites and email services become a breach of data and security.
>>2807 I think I agree with everything you just said. >Sure, you can allow your data to be tracked by your government, operating system, applications, web browser, websites, search engines, etc, however I do not. Fucking hell, the chunibyo vibes from you are insane. Are you trying to sound cool or baiting me to explain my opsec? Jesus christ fella. >We do not believe in the american lie of “freedom of speech” But do you support it as a principle? >feds requiring logs to be published from websites and email services become a breach of data and security. I didn't know this was a requirement, I just thought that corps played nice with feds because they are in bed together. Could I not start a service in the US and disable all nginx logs and simply not install analytics software? ignoring datacenter logs, isp logs and feds pozzing IXPs
>>2808 >>We do not believe in the american lie of “freedom of speech” >But do you support it as a principle? Don't take this as a normal position for leftists, but as a leninist/sorta libsoc I'm pro freedom of speech, I just think reactionaries or capitalists don't deserve the right to spread their toxic propaganda. You can be anywhere on the spectrum from a moderate market socialist to an ultraleft and as long as you're not socially reactionary/pro capitalist you should have the right to voice your opinion and make your disagreements heard. >>feds requiring logs to be published from websites and email services become a breach of data and security. > I didn't know this was a requirement, I just thought that corps played nice with feds because they are in bed together. Could I not start a service in the US and disable all nginx logs and simply not install analytics software? ignoring datacenter logs, isp logs and feds pozzing IXPs Based on my research that seems *sorta* legal, however it sounds like a good way to get FISAed and be forced to install logging software for the glowies.
>>2808 I support free speech as a principle because I'm not an idealist. Believing that people become reactionary because muh freeze peach is absurd. People say stupid fucked up shit all the time, it's how they behave that concerns me. The problem I have is with bourgeois free speech. It assigns to speech and ideas some special power and thus generates the very tendencies of censorship that those who venerate it oppose. Same shit happens with bourgeois notions on gender, nation, race, etc.
>>1045 Engineers are usually just extremely narrow-minded and autistc, in my language we use the term "profession-idiots" for people like that. It's in the nature of their profession to look at everything as a technical problem with a technical solution, without looking at the wider social and political causes. I recommend checking out Evgeny Morozov, he's a a critic of silicon valley ideology and talks about how it disguises increasinly brutal capitalism with superficial technical solutions.
>>2875 Haha, vakidioot? Dag Nederlandstalige
>>1546 China is working a new, modern GNU/Linux distribution https://www.chinauos.com/ It's designed to run well on local chips and work for multiple different use-cases.
>>1049 >He says programs should just compile for you. how do you even live? if anything compiling on an IDE is 10x as much a pain in the ass to debug. I will never get this mentality. even if I'm using an IDE I just instance powershell or bash and just type out my compile command instead of letting the IDE do it for me, shifting through path settings and menus to do a simple compile makes me want to bang my head into the desk.
>>1067 North Korea ironically. Red Star OS
The gaming industry is notorious for being awful to its workers, maybe that's the place to start pushing unions?
>>1089 https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port%C3%A1til_Magalh%C3%A3es We had the same thing here in Portugal, but they were called Magalhães
Where I live there is high demand for programmers so the companies are competing with each other to be the best to work for, offering high pay, good work environments etc. If you don't like the place you're working you've probably got ten recruiters in your LinkedIn ready to get you an interview with half the city. Basically they feel secure in their jobs and happy that they'll be able to move to a new one if things go bad. This might point to a lack of foresight, as you said they'll get older too, but as it sits they dont have grievances that they cant solve by quickly moving to a new company so it's hard to unionise when they are either generally very happy or prepared to go somewhere else. And then Game dev is a passion job for a lot of people so they are willing to make sacrifices to work in it. Until they shatter from the overworking.
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>>1049 I live in Brazil and here the government had laws to encourage the use free software whenever possible in universities, schools and in the government itself. The current government doesn't care about this. Helpfully, they are apathetic for the most part and aren't enforcing proprietary software and most people in computer-related courses in public universities are inclined to prefer free over proprietary, but there are people switching to Windows in universities and other places because they are more familiar with it.
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>>3653 Based. FSFE has this campaign for EU nations: https://publiccode.eu/

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