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21st century Leninism Anonymous 10/05/2020 (Mon) 19:47:51 No. 956879
Since this theme is recurring more and more in various threads, I'm making this thread for anons to contribute. Post new (i'd say from the late 80s onwards) books that could be used to update the Ml framework of thought and explain why. To begin with, i'd say that the first two books in this work of updating Ml thought would be: 1) Towards a new socialism, P.Cockshott 2) Arguments for socialism, P.Cockshott 3) Imperialism in the 21st Century-John Smith Hoping to foster a discussion and for anons to contribute. Even posters for other tendencies are allowed as long as it's constructive critic and not sectarian bullshit.
>Imperialism in the 21st Century-John Smith <Tfw you’re hoping anon read this specifically because you recommended it a few months ago
>>956879 (The books are three but i'm an autist forgive me)
>>956879 Adding some books People's Republic of Walmart Brain of the Firm, Stafford Beer Human Use of Human Beings, Norbert Wiener Cybernetics, Norbert Wiener (Very mathy though, but gives an intuition about what cybernetics implies) Designing Freedom, Stafford Beer The Knowledge We Have Lost in Information: The History of Information in Modern Economics, Philip Mirowski -- only a bit related, but it gives a high level overview of information in its relation to modern economic analysis. Good for those who are conceiving of ex ante planning schema.
>>956896 High level shit, good to see that there is a consensus around cybernetic as a future path for Leninism, waiting for other based anons to chip in.
What we need for genuine 21st century communism: We need, 1: A return of Marxist bookclubs infiltrating every university and college. 2: The spread of self improvement towards younger, interested members of communist groups. 3: More modern-centred anti-capitalist unions now that the proletariat in the west has shifted dramatically, tenant unions for example. 4: Youth Culture intermingling with Left Wing philosophy 5: More independent youth movements until Communist Parties start getting younger, and to an extent, more radical leadership.
>>956938 lads let's get some pdfs in here, spread some mf knowledge
>>956950 Yeah my bad trying to find my fucking harddrive atm.
I'm still working my way through How The World Works by Cockshott, very interesting and very recent book if you want to have an idea about how class societies have developed and moved throughout history.
>>956948 YES YES YES Do you have any book or shit on praxis wrt it? These are good intermediate goals
>>956962 No, these are just things I have listed from the top of my head. But communism genuinely needs a fresh coat of paint under our current conditions. The theory remains the same, but the way we achieve it is different.
>>956969 Of course. For that i'd say it would be nice to open another thread though, maybe /praxis/ general or something like that, open even to nother Marxists.
>>956983 >/praxis/ general I agree, it could be used to discuss graffiti and unions and actual rallies and shit. I'm surprised we haven't made this before.
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>>956966 >>956976 The anon posting those
>>956994 Open it, you have my backing and i believe all the other anons one.
>>956997 I'll let this thread stir for a bit more. Then I might make it.
What do MLs think about transhumanism and other technological things being used to achieve communism? I know that most transhumanists and technocrats are unbased but I have been mulling over tech we could use to run a better state.
>>956969 the association with sclerotic bureaucracy and inefficient distribution of goods/services feels like a major bit of baggage to dispose of as quickly as possible. like every socialist movement should stress the idea of "workers' democracy", "worker power", "worker control", so proles don't feel like the nebulous world of hyperreal capital keeps slipping through their fingers - it's why vote leave's slogan ("take back control") in the brexit campaign was so effective. the second prong of this intellectual offensive must be a technological revolution, not just that modern supercomputers can plan economies more efficiently than any market, but that through socialism mankind could finally push this technology to its full potential, rather than being anhedonic slaves to consoomerist social media shit. give proles a reason to believe in the future and that it can be theirs for the taking, that's a fucking dynamite line for agitprop
>>957007 I believe in technology if it does not oppress the working class.
>>957012 >>956998 >>956990 >>956989 >>956976 >>956966 That's the gist of what I've read (mostly) so far, except for Cockshott's how the world works. Too lazy to find Brain of the Firm as I only have a physical copy.
>>957011 So in a sense a populist cockshottism? Sounds based.
>>957023 Uphold Anti-Revisionist Cockshottism.
>>957015 Based, I think we could really use tech stuff to make a much more efficient state, like automating a bunch bureaucratic of stuff no-one really want to do to manage such a vast state apparatus.
>>957018 This is god tier stuff anon, especially the organizational science books could be VERY useful to outline new theory and stuff.
>>957023 not populist but popular, we must make it abundantly clear that the machines will not be controlled by party bureaucrats on their behalf, but that they will achieve the power and education to control the machines for themselves but then again, i do like the sound of populist cockshottism lmao
>>957033 The internet is crucial for this. We have the technology to make management of the machines doable from your own home/commune.
What we do is another Counter Cultural movement but for the current generation. Make Anti-Capitalism cool again.
>>957030 I accidentally posted TANS three times whoops. I guess it's pretty important though, so whatever.
>>957012 thank you pdfanon, we need someone/a group of lads to distribute based pdfs with the same regularity and quality as newsanon distributes based articles
>>957040 The counterculture shit has a problem though, that is what Yugopnik outline here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGP5ywPDJGs
>>956879 someone needs to start a neoleninist militia to uphold 21st century leninism
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Technocratic "cybernetic socialism" under the guise of Leninism is what all Trots and chauvinists are turning towards. It's idealism.
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>>957055 We need more youth groups that promote going to the gym. Hiring out sparring halls to learn how to box and shit. Literally most Nazi youth movements did the same thing.
>>957068 The proletariat is no longer the traditional 1920's proletariat you think it is, anon.
>>957068 I'm not really into leninism so much as council communism or parecon, so cybernetics is not just narrowly what Cockshott believes. I just like TANS and some of Cockshott's work for the stuff on planning.
>>957055 ADVANCE CYBORG-LENINIST THOUGHT
>>957068 >Practical application of computer systems for production and distribution is an idealist trotskyist plot! what the fuck
>>957068 every single post you make further cements you as the king of contrarian retardation. you are an invaluable asset to this site and i thank you for your service.
>>957086 Sorry comrade but we have to mine coal the old ways to retain ideological purity, Marx would roll in his grave if he saw our comrades using an advanced drilling system.
Kek I'm borderline Hoxhaist and I like Cockshott's policies. Cockshott is against Trotskyism in fact.
>>957084 step one is entryism with the SRA and the Red Guards USA. Step two is foundation of a new militiant organization. step three is fighting back against fascist organizations. step four is working with local communities. step five is consolidation of power within leftist gun orgs. Neoleninist Aktion will advance into victory!
>>957092 Good. People are just regurgitating the same nonsense the technocratic capitalists did during the great depression. It's a cop out to avoid constructing socialism via revolution.
>>957120 How is a way of achieving socialism toward the revolution avoiding revolution?
>>957120 Revolution to establish what? That's the question that we're asking -- what comes after? It's a difficult one.
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It's the only book we need. UPHOLD MLM-GONZALO-AVAKIAN THOUGHT
>>957140 The fuck is this?
>>957140 Anyone read this? It looks like shit tbh, although you should never judge a book by its cover.
>>957148 It's the greatest work of theory from the most important political thinker existing today. Comrade Avakian will lead us to true communism. revcom.org
>>957148 scientology for communists
>>957165 Isn't that Posadism?
>>957170 Posadism is a science, Bob Avakian thought is a religion.
>>957068 >Marxists are converging on something for the first time in 100 years <NOOOOOOOOOO IT'S IDEALISM
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>>957116 Cpusa anon (also FRSO and PSL anons) watch out for this thread.
A lot of us here are Gen Z, which makes sense due to many people from the early 2000's finally getting into work and quickly realising how little they get for how much they studied. We need a party, a movement, a lifestyle to some extent, that can be appreciated by the communists of the previous generations and the youthful ones of today.
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>>957175 >Posadism is a science Whoa there comrade, here comes the based department.
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UPHOLD MARXIST LENINIST COCKSHOTTIST SLINGSHOTTIST MAOIST HOXHAIST JUCHE THOUGHT
>>957116 I think you got those steps mixed up a bit. Building support within communities via outreach and mutual aid should come before any sort of direct action.
>>957124 It's not a way of achieving socialism. It's a fantasy like the Owen or Fourier models.
>>957321 >The USSR but way better >It's utopian Are you on crack??
>>957321 Cybernetic socialism and organizational theory is taking AES and methods of planning in organizations and applying it to a cohesive theory. it's taking what exists in the material world, already, and finding a "science of organization". Cybernetics literally comes from the word "kybernetes" in Greek which means "steersmanship". So it's the science or discipline of studying how organizations function and run at all scales. In other words it's perfectly suited to Marx's methods for the 21st century. You have an aestheticized view of what Marxism is supposed to be, drawing purely on the historical tendencies of Marxism rather than its methods.
>>957209 is jörg sprave based?
>>958978 He's /ourguy/
Bump
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>>969445 This is actually good, short of nationalizing the whole platform is the best you can do.
Mycelium running, one straw revolution, and gaia's garden are especially good what does this have to do with ML thought, well ... *slithers away*
>>959036 how is he ourguy
>>969499 useful anyhow, building self sufficient communities or helping existing ones is absolutely crucial to building a base of support. it's all about who gets to the people first, and as is pointed out in texts like Hinterland, the reactionaries have the advantage and resources. it's time for burger leftists to step it up and start applying the mass line in the guise of mutual aid or whatnot.
>>956938 So basically just listen to the general intellectual unit podcast kek
>>969499 Cuban unrbanoponicos are Ml-compatible and can use a good deal of those approaches, so in a sense those can still be useful
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Pondering the opening of a Twitter account to both get and give information about 21st century Leninism and how can we evolve it to today's circumstances, and to promote this place too of course. I was intentioned to call it "Lambda something" (originariliy the idea was "The Lambda society" but its took by an LGBT advocacy org sadly), and for the logo i was thinking about using picrel (or the inverted color scheme version, you choose). Is this a cool idea or is this bullshit?
>>956938 You should add, Cyber-Marx: Cycles and Circuits of Struggle in High Technology Capitalism Cyberwar and Revolution: Digital Subterfuge in Global Capitalism Cyber-Proletariat: Global Labour in the Digital Vortex Inhuman Power: Artificial Intelligence and the Future of Capitalism all by Nick Dyer-Witheford to that list.
>>988837 go for it bro, just dont call it "labrador" or whatever youre thinking, maybe base the name off the symbol?
>>988888 MY GOD THE QUINTS THE DIALECTIC WILLS IT. Anon i'm sorry but you gotta choose the name at this point.
>>988888 CHEKA’D
>>988895 oh man i was trying to be a jerk, and now i have to pick a name
>>988888 Do it (Also the name is based off the symbol, which depicts a Greek letter known as "Lambda", so mind this in your choice, based anon)
>>988916 i knew about the lambda i was just trying to be funny by saying it sounded like Labrador (i know im the pinnacle of comedy) Name incoming
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>>988952 so why are we using a lambda? i know it has meaning in like physics, but is there any reason we should? if anything a cyrillic L would be better right? it could stand for Lenin, and im pretty sure it meant ludi (people) at some point. Maybe create a lambda/Л hybrid? otherwise we could just call it very simply LAMBDA (Leninist Association for the Major Betterment of Democratic Action) or maybe (Leninist Action for the Major Betterment of Democracy Association)
>>989014 The first one is DOPE AF- only the "Democratic action bit" does not convince me, let's try and find a better last words) Also the letter in itself refers to this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_calculus
>>989174 LAMBDA- Leninist Association for the Modern Building of Doctrine and Actions or LAMBDA-Leninist Association for the Modernization and Betterment of Doctrine and Actions You choose anons
>>989014 It's a reference to lambda calculus in computer science, not physics.
>>989174 yeah i was going for the Russian Social Democratic Labor party type vibe >>989279 the feel a bit too clunky to me, but if i had to choose id prefer the second one. >>98931 sorry bro im a retard, he already set me straight though
>>989360 I too am fond of the second one but i feel it still a bit clunky. Give me a new take (this extends to every anon reading rn)
>>989379 ive been trying man but my only skill is to make jokes that arent funny how about Leninist Association for the Modernization, Betterment, and Discipline of Action?
>>989437 Better Discipline or direction? The rest is God tier
>>989454 kinda depends if we want to take a reactionary or a initiative role, since youre spreading an ideology you probably dont want to seem to antagonistic (we have lenin in the name), and thats what i think direction would imply, meanwhile discipline to me implies that something is being taught, and strictly enforced within the association. Thats just my take though its your org my man
>>989496 that feels like a word salad let me try simplifying. Leninist Association for the Modernization, Betterment, and Discipline of Action = Action that is being modernized, improved and made more uniform and coherent through discipline Leninist Association for the Modernization, Betterment, and Direction of Action = Action that is being modernized, improved that focuses on agitating through directed action. Hope that makes more sense
>>989496 >Org Dude it will be an elaborate scheme for shitposting and circulating theory (and promoting this place too), if and when will get to ever resemble org things will be very different from now. That said, you've convinced me that maybe the word "discipline" is better.
>>989514 org for shitposting or actual politics is still an org
Update: made a cock.li email for the account, now all i need is a way to circumvent the phone requirement and a banner for the account.
>>988888 nice GET!
>>989602 did you do it broski?
the official cybernetic socialism thread is gone, now all the links to previous archived versions of that thread is gone too, if somebody got those links pls post
>>957209 What if Cockshrott meets Sprave, imagine communist slingshot madlad.
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>>996998 what nooooooooo, btw did u see that Dickblast is getting a new mic?
>>993899 Sadly no, still have to find a way around the fucking number requirement.
>>996998 https://www.bunkerchan.xyz/leftypol/res/474510.html Link to the old thread with the links in case someone wants to start it back again
>>957055 leninism is dead, a new branch of marxist theory is needed to explain modern capital
>>997338 Please, enlighten us. I unironically mean this
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>>997342 interdependence, and international supply chains are the order of the day. Great powers don't intraven to export manufactured goods, they import them.
>>997354 go back to /r/neoliberal
>>956938 PRW ends with a trotskyist rant about AES. Really spoiled the book for me.
every nazi is gangsta till a 6'2 commie in a hoodie goes "rotfront"
>>956948 This. I noticed the best thing for agitation is to take it step by step. Most young people in the US recognize that their interests are opposed by corrupt moneyed interests. You need to develop that idea first. If they are already there (e.g. Bernie Supporter), talk to them about how capitalists always fight for their rights to exploit people and any compromise or new deal is just a temporary ceasefire until they start to dismantle it. Then start talking about how to make a different economic system. It helps to ask them a ton of questions to make them think critically about what they believe.
>>997041 thank fuck i couldnt take watching his videos >>997091 Did you try google voice?
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>>997944 Explain it, i'm all ears
>>997870 Is this a Vizzion reference?
>>997862 >the United States is a country where entire nationalities – African Americans, Chicanos and Latinos, Asian Americans, Native peoples including native Hawaiians, Arab Americans and others within U.S borders except for native americans, these people by and large these people don't see themselves as distince nations though
>>998016 its just a voip that google does, it worked pretty well when i needed to bypass phone number requirements on certain apps https://voice.google.com/about
>>956938 Take PRW with a grain of salt. It's an excellent book overall, especially with its exploration of planned economies, but since it's written by two Jacobin demsocs, the chapters on AES are full of false equivalences between capitalism and ML. If you do plan on compiling these books into a larger list, I'd recommend putting that caveat on PRW, that it should only be read for an into to planned economics rather than any broader political theory.
>>957095 Marxism-Leninism-Saudism
>>989279 Should be TCP/IP The Communist Party / International Proletariat
>>1002305 That way it seems just another party though, although the reference is cool af.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1923/jan/06.htm Not strictly 21st century but with all the discourse on coops around i feel this could be a starting base to work on to talk coops

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