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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion. Join the Matrix: https://matrix.to/#/+leftychat:matrix.org Visit the Booru: https://lefty.booru.org/

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/prc/ - People's Republic of China general Comrade 08/05/2019 (Mon) 12:39:50 No. 8925
A general thread for all China related discussion
>>865078 This is a cumtown bit.
>>864920 What's the context of this? I seriously doubt the CPC would just say : hey remember this one town, well time to socialism it up by taking a couple of hotels from porklers
>>865211 Might be the first of many such cases of renationalization policies. Not sure if the plan is part of an ideological shift or if its seizing the properties so they can be developed by some other porkies.
>>865078 wait until they find out they still call blacks negros in spanish-speaking countries
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>>864920 Based
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>>865092 >It is clear to everyone that China is qualitatively different from the liberal democracies This is the important part, there's a lot of people here who think that since China doesn't fit their conception of a communist country, it must be a liberal democracy/autocracy. China certainly isn't a socialist country (which the Chinese agree with), it's more like a social democracy run by communists, but I will stand my ground and continue to call it communist. "Communist" and "socialist" are vague terms nowadays, and few people ever give their definitions when using those words, so here's how I define them when speaking of practical reality: Socialist refers to the structure of the economy, while communist is pic related. If communism is the "real movement which abolishes the present state of things", and that present state is neoliberal globalization, then China fits the definition quite well. Developing China into a modern, advanced country is a death sentence for Western neoliberalism, as it relies on global inequality so it can outsource capital to cheaper labor markets. By developing its productive forces, China has put a huge portion of the third world proletariat on equal footing with the West, which has been stagnating in its own decadence for decades now. The trade war was started because Western porkies panicked when they realized that China was about to blow past their level of development. What's important to realize is that it's difficult for us to conceive of what "workers ownership" will actually look like, just like it was for Dutch mercantilists to conceive of fully industrialized capitalism. China is at the forefront of technological advancements right now, with 5G, AI, smart cities, high-speed trains, blockchain, and so on. Then there's the Belt and Road Initiative, which is an international development project that has no close precedent in history. I don't give a shit about whatever dead niche ideology you identify with, China is the future and is taking humanity to new heights. Nick Land, that reactionary boomer, put it best when he wrote "Neo-China arrives from the future". One day in an undefined future, we're gonna wake up to find a China that is advanced beyond our imaginations.
>>865131 I remember seeing a video like 7 years ago of a black American man traveling on a Chinese train sperging the fuck out at a local man for this exact same word doing a scene there for everyone's befuddlement. Entitled stupid cunts. They go to a developing country and still find a way to make themselves the victims there. The same phenomenon with anti-Chinese youtubers.
>>865078 Keep in mind National Review is a conservative propaganda rag founded by William Buckley that has an interest in generating controversy.
American EXPLAINS China's Foreign Policy (It's NOT Imperialism or Entrapment!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObefKNUEtKg
>>865293 >5G >internet-of-things bullshit >blockchain... to accomplish what exactly >technological advancement Can we not pretend Silicon Valley memes are technological advancement?
>>865392 I'm glad you brought up Silicon Valley, because it's a perfect example of capitalism's inability to innovate anymore. In the US, those technologies will never be used to their full potential. Blockchain is used for computer money that's used for speculation and buying drugs online, in China they use it for smart contracts and have created a "digital Yuan". Blockchain is a technology that can fundamentally alter finance and economic exchange, but the West can't do that because it would destroy the status quo. Smart cities allow China to do things like coordinate driver-less electric buses and build the basis of a cybernetic economy. It's true that these things are just memes in the US, not because they aren't revolutionary technologies, but because they threaten capitalism at its base. Here are some articles I scrounged up real quick, I'll look for some better ones too: https://news.cgtn.com/news/3d3d414f34417a4d78457a6333566d54/index.html https://www.china-briefing.com/news/when-can-i-buy-use-and-trade-chinas-digital-yuan/ https://www.eco-business.com/news/tencents-smart-city-seen-as-model-for-post-coronavirus-china/
>>865293 Yeah I only say it isn’t a “socialist” country because that is typically used with connotations of either being akin to the 20th century ML states or having some kind of obvious “worker’s control”, which I don’t think China represents. But they do represent something strange and different from the liberal democracies, or the liberal dictatorships that often serve as collaborators of global capital. Primarily because the party is clearly still in control of the country, and the party very arguably directs state policy for its own preservation and the development of China. But that former point, “its own preservation”, means more than just sinister horror stories of people being black bagged or whatever. The CPC also purges corrupt officials and reproduces its own guiding principles as a form of legitimacy. It continues to represent itself as ideologically communist, and it does promote communist theory and traditional communist ideals in the process of its reproduction. It hasn’t repudiated those things, in fact it recognizes the repudiation of those things currently as a danger to its legitimacy, as just shouting to the Chinese people that the communist party is officially a dictatorship of corrupt oligarchs like in Russia, except no sham liberal elections or anything like that. But in the process of reproducing the communist principles of the party, it does continue to produce communist cadre. And these communists are willing to openly struggle with capital to retain the authority of the party. That means the party has incentive to distinguish itself from capital, if crisis occurs or capital steps out of line the party will quickly throw them under the bus in order to prove that it isn’t just a stooge of the bourgeoisie. But it is a delicate balance and I just don’t pass swift judgement because the party itself can still be very opaque, so it is hard for me to say where this is all going. When China suffers a big capitalist crisis or stagnating profits, what does it do? That is when the CPC has to really pick sides and fully show its hand. Does it whip capital and nationalize failing industries to protect the proletariat, thus choosing to adhere to its public guiding principles, or does it allow the proletariat to be ground up into dust and bail out capital like the liberal democracies do, who openly worship the market and will feed it with misery and corpses because “there is no other way”?
>>865493 5G and IoT are fundamentally bad ideas, you can't make them good with centralized planning.
>>865493 >coordinate driver-less electric buses How about they just use a light rail system like a sane city?
>>865516 >>865519 We're getting bogged down on specifics, my ultimate point is that China is far more capable of developing and effectively utilizing revolutionary new technologies, just like capitalism could with electricity and trains. Maybe those technologies you mentioned are ultimately worthless, but China is actually experimenting with them. Blockchain IS a revolutionary technology, not because I agree with pampered AnCap cokeheads, but because it allows for the full utilization of info and computer tech in economics. Blockchain isn't just cryptocurrencies, it's something that can be used for bank transactions, voting systems, sharing medical data, supply chain and logistics management, and a whole host of other possibilities that are being explored. Let me compare it to electricity, something like Bitcoin is like an electric lightbulb, it's just a small application of the technology. You shouldn't dismiss electricity by focusing on one tiny application. Bitcoin is the ONLY thing capitalism can do with blockchain as it is right now, China is actually trying to develop it into something far more useful. The Chinese state is not limited by profit when it comes to revolutionary developments, even if segments of Chinese society are.
>>865511 This is a great post, I'll post my own additions to the points you made in a bit. To bring up the American Civil War comparison again, China is currently engaged in a struggle between the new bourgeoisie and the CPC/Proletariat; the Confederates (Chinese Booj) can still win this struggle, but that remains to be seen.
>>827731 Why utopians believe homeless people will be vanished in socialism?. Yes, most majority which is unfairly treated will, but no the laziest ones, who doesn't work doesn't eat.
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is he,dare i say, ours candidate?
>>865493 >lockchain is used for computer money that's used for speculation and buying drugs online, in China they use it for smart contracts and have created a "digital Yuan". Not to mention that they allow offline transactions, which is fucking amazing.
>>865511 good poast
>>865616 They would be exiled
>>866017 Repeat after me - Security Competition
>>866052 where to?
>>865190 >Analysts have been warning about the growing financial risks after the Chinese economy contracted during the first part of the year as a result of the CCP Virus. lmfao that site is even worse than the WSJ when it comes to yellow peril catastrophizing
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>>865511 Again, this is a great post. I agree that China isn't "socialist" by most definitions, which the Chinese agree with. Understanding China and its future require a solid understanding of Dialectical Materialism. The truth is, none of us know what an actual socialist economy will look like, let alone communism. Leftcoms are correct in saying there has never been a "socialist" society, we've only had DotP's that are meant to develop socialism. A revolution was never going to bring about socialism, just like the bourgeois French revolution didn't bring about capitalism. Revolutions primarily affect the superstructure of society, they have little effect on the material, productive base. It's true that the base determines the superstructure, but the superstructure influences and (most importantly) develops the base. Revolutions happen when material developments within the base make the old superstructure obsolete. These developments come from technological and social advances, not from revolutions. All the great, world-historic revolutions (French, Russian, Chinese) were examples of the base asserting its power over the superstructure, qualitatively changing it in the process. The superstructures of the United States and the rest of the Western capitalist societies can no longer further the development of the base; in fact, they HINDER its development. The Chinese revolution destroyed the old superstructure that held back development and the CPC built a new one in line with the material base. When Deng took over from the Gang of Four, the highest level of base development was represented by neoliberal globalization. The Chinese state actively responded to its material reality, and furthered its development by opening-up and taking part in the global productive base. Now that neoliberalism is collapsing the decrepit capitalist states that built it are reverting to old social forms like protectionism, all in a desperate attempt to stave off their collapse in the face of material reality. China is the only one trying to maintain the global system that came with neoliberalism, with the BRI being something major capitalist states are totally incapable of doing anymore. The Chinese superstructure is in tune with the accelerating development of the productive forces; THIS is how socialism comes about. It was the steam engine and electricity that created capitalism's base, not the French or American revolutions. It will be InfoTech and other new developments that will create the international socialist base, the communist revolutions only created structures that can facilitate this.
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>>866174 >The truth is, none of us know what an actual socialist economy will look like, let alone communism.
>>866174 I want to believe, but it sounds too good to be true
>>863496 who writes this trash? jesus, SEA rightoids are insufferable.
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>>866180 I love me some Dickblast, and he definitely has written some incredibly important shit. I've heard his books have been banned in China, which is a damn shame if it's true. I remember seeing him talk about it in a video, and apparently his work is read by some CPC members even if it's technically banned. Take that with a grain of salt though, it's a vague memory and I don't have a source. Either way, the implementation of some kind of cybernetic socialism is my litmus test for China. I will freely admit I'm wrong about China if they don't do it within the next decade or so, as the collapse of neoliberalism accelerates to its destruction. >>866229 You don't have to believe, whatever happens, happens. Whether China is actually moving towards socialism or not, it is the future. The Columbian Era of Western capitalist domination is coming to an end while China blazes forward into the future. Maybe it will be a glorious communist future, maybe it will be a Landian techno-capitalist hell, either way, the CPC is inevitable. Study it, learn from it, and oppose any Western vultures trying to destroy it.
>>866275 >I've heard his books have been banned in China stop regurgitating hearsay, ffs
>>866278 I was pretty clear about not being sure if it was true. Thank you for the clarification.
>>8925 Does anyone had that one american copypasta version of the tiannamen square copypasta?
世界人民大团结万岁
>>865190 This bullshit is from Falun Gong but it would be based if true.
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https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1vT4y1j7AW >美国最大共产党——争取社会主义与解放党(审核君辛苦) >The largest Communist Party in the United States-the Party for Socialism and Liberation (very hard work) what did they mean by this? and why does everyone on bilibili have an anime avatar?
>>866687 Pirating anime is actually existing communism.
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>>866687 >the trot splitting meme exists in China oh no no no!
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>>866741 Well this is actually true? What the hell.
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>>866771 I don't want to make too many posts, but it's a gold mine. There's a surprising amount of Sino-Soviet split related posts, for instance.
>>866785 No, please keep posting the good bits you find. This is absolutely amazing. Though it might sound odd, it's genuinely comforting to read their thoughts. I guess it feels less lonely for me
>>866979 I feel kind of similar, but I got the idea to read translations of Chinese social media after seeing CPC members present and speaking in both Chinese and English on twitter. I would go on bilibili and try to talk, but I think it requires a phone number. If you want you can go through the comments yourself and translate them individually using Google translate. I found that video by translating "communist party USA" into Chinese then searching the result in bilibili. Figured the resulting comment sections would be amusing, wasn't too disappointed
>>866741 >>866717 surprisingly good comments
>>866785 >It also makes some communist funers have an orgasm in the skull. The what now?
Is there a redpill to be taken about Chinese claims in the South China Sea?
>>867011 Fellas, if your girl ain't willing to give you a skullgasm, that ain't your girl.
>>867028 People say it's about China's oil access but that's just a big cover up. In reality the Chinese have found the sunken island of Atlantis and are extracting alien technology from there beyond our wildest imagination.
>>867028 My take on that question: 1) Aside from Scarbourough Shoal, where Philippines claim is sound, the only two states to have any meaningufl title on the island of the area are Vietnam and China 2) China is both pursuing the right strategy with artificial islands and the wrong one by not engaging in a full partiton of the islands with Vietnam, which would boost China Vietnam relations a bit taking the latter out of the US orbit or at least making it more neutral.
>>867028 China is just trying to strengthen its position as a regional hegemon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_Mx_e8t7nU
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>>866687 based
>>867028 The artificial islands are purely defensive, to provide a redoubt that shields intra-Chinese shipping. Most of the goods shipped thorough the China sea are purely from one part of China to another after all. The mineral and fishery wealth is either minuscule, hypothetical or not recoverable at present.
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>>866687 I've noticed that Chinese netizens sometimes get confused (understandable) about American orgs and mix them up. It's not a big deal. It's sometimes funny though. Recently I saw an article on the Chinese "neo-Maoist" website Utopia about the PCUSA guy running for an office in Vermont, and they described him as a member of the Communist Party USA, although the guy has a big section on his website complaining about why he doesn't like the CPUSA. But it just shows how petty and marginal these differences are from the perspective of someone in China looking at it from a distance.
>>854080 >Publicly siding against fascism more than once >Nazbol Caleb is a brainlet on much stuff but it 100% isn't a fascist >>855718 >Authoritarian Stop taking your politics from Jreg tier shit. >It will probably liberalise to have advantage in global market <Ignoring the fact they are getting more and more near the moment the Us will enact a total blockade on them
>>821622 holy shit capitalists are some of the most retarded fucking troglodyte uighurs on the earth.
>>821622 To be fair, it is pretty fucked up that finishing a plate is considered rude rather than prudent. Glad the government is addressing this.
Is it true that china and bytedance would rather shut down tiktok usa rather than let it come into the hands of imperialist marco rubio fundraisers?
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So what is the historical consensus around pic related nowadays?
>>867534 >But it just shows how petty and marginal these differences are from the perspective of someone in China looking at it from a distance. That's the case for anyone looking in from the outside of any capitalist country with a set of communist parties, isn't it?
>>868807 The culture and language barrier with China is bigger tho.
>>866785 So are most or at least many people in China genuinely communists of the Marxist or ML variety? They all speak like Maoists
>>867623 Finishing the plate was considered rude because it implies to the host who gave the food that they didn't provide enough food to make the guest feel absolutely stuffed to the point of not being able to fit anymore in no matter how much they try
>>867885 I have no idea who this is but she'd get it
>>868860 Current membership of the party is 91,914,000. That's roughly 6.6% of the entire population. It's a communist party, so what do you think they train the cadre for?
>>868860 >TFW when being a genuine communist is actually mainstream I wonder wether they have in China boards like /libpol/ for chinese liberals
>>868880 Wu Zetian, only female monarch in the history of China (690-705).
>>867028 They're throwing their weight around like any great power does. The US is obviously going to make a big deal of it because they want to turn China's neighbours in to US allies against China.
>>867165 based mearsheimer poster
>>869151 Bruh is this guy crying in the thumbnail lol.
>>869151 >comments reactionarism is a mental illness
>>869268 >Its server is located in United States Coincidentally near Langley, Virginia, right? >The Washington Post described Pincong as a popular forum among Chinese geeks, and mentioned its style is similar to Reddit. Why am I not surprised.
I went to cuckchan and came across the newest psyop hit piece disguised as a medical paper coming straight from the Rule of Law Society & Rule of Law Foundation AKA Bannon's "New Federal State of China" think tank. It seems to be a continuation on his "ccp virus" project, claiming that COVID-19 is a bioweapon created by the PLA. http://3nzoldnxplag42gqjs23xvghtzf6t6yzssrtytnntc6ppc7xxuoneoad.onion/LiMengYAN119/status/1305500268214222848 Of course 4channelers and redditors (same thing nowadays) as dumb as they are will start eating it up en masse in a few hours down the line.
>>869268 They use cloudflare, whois not turning up any useful information about server location and owner.
>>869308 god I cannot wait for the dengoids to invade north america and finally free me from this idiocy.
>>866741 >>866785 holy mother of based.... now I feel I need to learn chinese. Although my friends have told me that Chinese people are usually just average people (not really politicized), and those that hang out with foreigners are usually just plain liberals.
>>869316 >whois not turning up any useful information about server location and owner
>>866687 it means the PSL is more based than we though
>>866017 he might be better than trump, but still just vote for whichever candidate you agree the most with on your ballot
https://mobile.twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1305343136554610688/photo/4 How would China respond to that, this seems crushing shit frankly
>>869744 What about it seems crushing? Do not devolve into cowardice at the first sign of turbulence, christ. There is no doubt that China is prepared for this, and has been prepared for years. Most likely result is a continuation of the cold war, as referenced by the source. The world will be split between two competing tech interests, which will compete for dominance on a country-by-country basis as the flagships for economic and political ties between those countries and the parent countries of the tech networks. You need to understand that the US does not have the power to act unilaterally across the globe. Just because it says it wants to shut down Chinese tech across the globe does not mean it can actually do that.
>>869790 My main concern is that measures like this can be overcome only by reverting more and more to planned economy, but at the same time i'm worried Chinese booj will hamper that.
>>869802 Don't see how planned vs market economy has to do with it.
>>869829 >Bases a good chunk of its development on international markets >Gets progressively shut out of tech markets and probably from trade altogether in the future This is how planned vs market economy has to do with it.
>>869847 That has even more preparation behind it than the tech war. You should have some faith, the current leadership of the CCP has spent its entire existence preparing for this sort of escalation.
>>869744 I don't see how a lot of this is feasibly enforced. A lot of Chinese consumer products are already better than the burger alternatives, so it's not like iron curtaining post-ww2 eastern bloc. If a Western porky can get steel for cheaper from China he'll protest his gov. barring his access to it. If Western governments bar Huawei while a lot of their civilians already use them and know it to be superior to the alternatives it's gonna have a cultural backslash. Blocking the Belt&Road seems impossible to me with these proposed policies.
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https://www.naval-technology.com/features/china-boasts-worlds-largest-navy-us-dod-report/ China boasts world’s largest navy: US DoD report >The US Department of Defense (DoD) has released its ‘2020 China Military Power Report’ showing that the People’s Republic of China (PRC) has the largest navy in the world, surpassing the US Navy. They're probably just begging for more funding, but whatever.
>>869923 They seem to be treating the products legally as physical goods to be controlled. In that thread you see talk of "sanctions" and I've seen US officials refer to tiktok as an "import". From that framework they could probably leverage legal action against any company based in the US (and any allies that sign on) based on allegations of "smuggling contraband" or some such bullshit.
>>869940 >investing in aircraft carriers >in 2020 China's not living up to they hype, these things are just missile bait
>>868880 Fun fact, Wu Zetian converted foreign dignitaries from the Byzantines and Caliphate to Buddhism with her pussy, made them eat her out
>>869923 >>869945 So we're going to see Chinese shit become the hot commodity and American companies lose out on it's clout when it comes to quality?
>>869955 The US is building multiple aircraft carriers as well. You might as well complain about tanks still being in use when anti-tank weapons can shred through any of them. They are the best option to complete a necessary role, namely being able to get planes to places they either don't have the range for or wouldn't be able to fly to fast enough. If you have a better idea of how to do that please deliver it in a coded message to Xi.
>>869940 big if true
god arguing with people on china is so fucking annoying "China is worse cause nazicamps and covering up china virus ecks dee" Does literally anyone have good resources on china when it comes to this?
>>869847 China has been shut out of international trade twice already.Once in 1960 with the sino-soviet split and once in 1989 when the west embargoed China due to butthurt over their coup attempt failing. The government is not without experience handling isolation.
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>>871341 *Probably not entirely sorry still waking up, misread you as asking if it wasn't bullshit
>>871341 Thanks for the articles (fellow /auscom/ anon?), is crikey mildy based or something?
>>871378 Yeah m8 it is
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Are Qiao Collective /ourguys/ ? https://www.qiaocollective.com/ <Qiao Collective is a collective of diaspora Chinese challenging U.S. aggression on China. >We aim to challenge rising U.S. aggression towards the People’s Republic of China and to equip the U.S. anti-war movement with the tools and analysis to better combat the stoking of a New Cold War conflict with China. >We seek to be a bridge between the U.S. left and China’s rich Marxist, anti-imperialist political work and thought in order to foster critical consideration of the role of China and socialism with Chinese characteristics in contemporary geopolitics. >We aim to disrupt Western misinformation and propaganda and to affirm the basic humanity, subjectivity, and political agency of Chinese people. We believe misinformation, chauvinism, and false equivalencies have weakened the U.S. left’s ability to understand aggression on China in the larger context of Western political, military, and economic imperialism in the Global South. We aim to confront the internalization of U.S. propaganda amongst the U.S. left by critically and realistically examining China’s role in the world struggle against imperialism and capitalism. >We work to provide a lens into China’s role in supporting an emerging bloc of independent Global South nations mutually threatened by Western economic, military, and political violence. We are committed to the principles of socialist internationalism and strive towards solidarity and mutual exchange between China in its socialist path and the liberation movements of all Global South and colonized peoples. >Qiao Collective is an all volunteer group with no funding. We are made up entirely of diaspora Chinese people living across multiple countries. We are a diverse group of diaspora Chinese, including ethnic Chinese from Southeast Asia, mainland China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan. They have a pretty cool fresh youtube channel: https://youtu.be/N_RNi3tX8c4 https://youtu.be/iIJKyL_8vN4
>>871576 They're in the Progressive International and support China, creating some quality dramatainment.
>>871576 They make some pretty dumb tweets from time to time, but overall I think they are cool
>>871576 9/10 Yes they are
>>871631 >The ships brought many things some great some not so great, we arranged a deal, a 100 years lease with the barbarian British and then freedom. Wait what aaaah yes the opium wars where England bullied china who wanted to go in rehab because millions were dying into buying all the drugs so the crown could extract silver from Asia while mounting financial shenanigans on stolen land. I remember now, yes that's some American freedom all right.
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>Protestant Christianity is probably the fastest-growing faith, with at least 38m adherents today (about 3% of the population) Fhttps://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/09/15/protestant-christianity-is-booming-in-china
>>871576 >socialism with Chinese characteristics dropped
>>871785 How do they even get these numbers? Either way, the CPC actively represses them so their faggotry will thankfully never have any real power or influence over Chinese society.
>>871785 >>872209 It is a interesting trend which is probably linked with the fact that China and the Vatican are establishing more friendly relations: >A CONSISTENT THEME of Pope Francis’s papacy has been a drive to improve relations with China, with which the Holy See has had no official ties since 1951. https://www.economist.com/china/2020/09/13/the-vatican-faces-criticism-for-pursuing-closer-ties-with-china
>>872219 I bet they're laying the ground for a second Cold War
>>872219 >Protestant Christianity >The Vatican uighur please
>>872224 oops :o
Chinese century
>>872398 Based pasta uighurs
>>872404 Qin and Da Qin are brother civilizations.
>>872398 >Japan and south cuckrea ara still the retard of world.
>>871217 incredible
>>872448 What US military occupation does to a mf
The absolute state of Dengoids
>>872675 >39 updemocracies that's not even a mildly popular thread
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>>872448 They are just delusional
>>872689 Is China trying to make cute PLA girls the new cute IDF girls?
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>>872689 smuchu
>>872704 >URM filter Nice.
>>872829 Must be nice to have a court which rules in favor of working people. It seems more like a class victory than a trans victory to me though.
>>872822 what's that?
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>>872924 Filter that makes people look like URM Cyborgs.
What are the ramifications of China nationalizing businesses? Surely that's going to make the porkies angry, won't it?
Rec me a good book about xi jin ping thought or socialism w/ Chinese characteristics. Unironically becoming a dengist
Dengautists in 1830s be like "critical support for Andrew Jackson in pacifying terrorists and developing productive forces"
>>873337 How about you read Marx and see that in no world is China Marxist.
>>873386 You can argue China is not socialist but they for sure are Marxists.
>>873401 I guess using "productive forces" and vaguely analyzing with historical materialism makes you Marxist now despite ignoring literally everything else he wrote.
>>873401 Xi probably is a sincere Marxist but there is no way his country will become socialist without a second Chinese revolution, thus ending the PRC and establishing a genuine proletarian state in its place. Capitalism is institutionalized in China so even if Xi wanted for the country to go socialist eventually it would not happen. The national bourgeois may have less freedom in China than in other countries but at the end of the day the state still does as they wish, since the economy is subservient to the profit motive.
>>869955 its for proxy wars and third world bullying, not for direct US conflict
>>872829 Based based based
>>872829 can someone post a translation or TL;DR? I can't even select the text for some reason.
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anyone has a copy?
>>866666 Based post and based quints
>>872209 >the CPC actively represses them That´s not really true, China has state sanctioned churches for every Christian denomination, they just aren´t allowed to get political. You shouldn´t think all the Chinese prots are into that Eastern Lightning shit, most people who are in that kind of group were kidnapped.
>>873482 We should initiate a collective effort to raise 165 $ to buy one copy and let Ismail digitze it, so that everybody can read it.
>>873788 lol who will set up the gofundme?
>>873797 We should make it bigger. Perhaps ask the people at r/sino? I think they would be also interested in it.
Do all the people reeing about muh dengoids realize that dengists hate the current gov?
>>873788 Or we could ask Bay Area if he could donate his copy for the scan.
>>873788 If we're spending a hundred dollars on a book it should be that one titled something like Lenin's Electoral Strategy
>>873809 >dengists hate the current gov Source? I kinda wanna read angry posts from the right wing opposition to Xi
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>>873814 now we wait
>>873816 that's already available online
>>873817 If I figure out to post WeChat links here I will. I just get all these opinion pieces from my friend. Currently they're more about jerking off over the impending downfall of the US, borderline racial supremacist shit lol . But maybe the recent nationalizations will heat up the infighting
>>872700 It's definitely working
>>873829 I will give you a thumb up
>>872804 why do chinese people have bad taste in music?
>>873844 I'm assuming this video is ripped from some bottom of the barrel social media spam account, cause that's the only sort of thing popular enough to filter over here.
>>873378 Andrew Jackson was actually destroying productive forces by decentralizing banking and putting half the country into the debt of England again
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>The Point: Are China and the EU strategic partners or rivals? Are the EU and Mutti Merkel BASED? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwcM0ZtAr_A
>>874177 see >>872398 Not just Germans. The whole world sees the change happening.
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Can some Dengautists here explain why there are capitalists in the CCP?
>>874292 It's still a dictatorship of the proletariat if the proletariat has a majority of the seats.
>>874292 Can leftcoms explain how they aren't just edgier liberals?
>>874292 If China is going to use a market and allow capitalists to exist at all they must allow capitalists to have formal political representation. Failure to do so would result in large scale corruption, as the capitalist class seeks illegally what it cannot attain through cooperation with the government. The behavior and loyalty of these people is assured through the social credit system, which exists for the express purpose of keeping such interests in check.
>>874323 >don't like capitalists? you're a leftcom kiddo, and a liberal too
>>874339 You're not leaving a lot of options here. Unless you're a big fan of the crippling poverty and totalitarianism of the Mao or Stalin eras
>>874351 Mao was good
>>874351 Shut up Margaret Thatcher
>>874351 >totalitarianism Define this right fucking now, liberal.
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>>874374 they L I T E R A L L Y slaughtered millions of landlords!
>>874356 Mao should have stayed away from the practical aspects of building socialism
>>874374 >>874358 >>874356 Mao was based but you're a fucking liar if you say you want to live through that shit
>>874351 Proof Dengoids are just red Neoliberals
>>874388 >not wanting to make your landlord wear a silly hat and beat him with a stick
>>874388 I wouldn't want to live through the USA in the same period either now would I?
>>874388 >>874351 >>874323 So are D*ngoids just mask off neolibs at this point?
>>874311 Any "dictatorship of the proletariat" wouldn't have fucking capitalists in the party
Once again do you guys realize that actual, honest to God Dengists hate the current Xi admin?
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>>874397 Make an argument any time
>>874416 >why won't everyone just accept my stance even though i keep repeating it?
>>874416 what? Xi threw out that one influential Maotist mayor because he was corrupt, right?
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>>874412 How about you prove that these capitalists have any power besides saying intentionally vague things "China is subordinated to the laws of profit" Which implies that full capitalist restoration is 100% going to happen,which is pure idealism and lacking in nuance. For one they have actually studied and learned from the mistakes of the Soviets and recognized they lacked strength in will and a party fully committed to stopping the reactionary counter-revolution https://jamestown.org/program/chinese-analyses-of-soviet-failure-the-party/ >ib4 you are defending the existence of billionaires in a "socialist state" I am not.
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help me get out of this clown world
>>874412 >Any "dictatorship of the proletariat" wouldn't have fucking capitalists in the party Why don't you put a number on how many capitalists are in the party vs. how many party members there are? Do you even know what a dictatorship of the proletariat is? It means society is dictated by the proletariat. Let me tell you, if 90% of the voting party members are proletarian and 10% are bourgeois, you are not looking at a society that is dictated by the bourgeoisie.
>>874463 If that same bourgeoisie hold half the means of production and are then allowed in the party their voice will be disproportionately represented.
>>874464 As managers of the economy, their advice will be taken into account appropriately. When voting time comes, they can still be outvoted overwhelmingly. Do you think they're going to hold their factories and shit hostage or something? The state can always overpower them as it's held by the proletariat in great majority. They exercise this power regularly
>>874472 It would be interested if anyone could cite the example of a single nationalization or expropriation that was stopped by this fabled power of the Chinese capitalist class.
Where can I read about Xi jinping thought?
>>874653 >Xi jinping thought I'm not aware, that Xi has developed a coherent and profound theory just like Mao did. I have the feeling, that "Xi Jinping thought" is just a CPC-buzzword.
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LMAO
>>874826 >literally Xi protecting peasants how will Dengism ever recover
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>>874685 >coherent and profound theory just like Mao
>>874826 That's actually based
>>874848 Lmfao yeah theres a reason they call it mao zedong thought and not maoism
The U.S. is still a dominant power — but it’s not clear if it remains the global leader https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/17/us-is-still-a-dominant-power-but-it-may-not-be-the-global-leader.html SINGAPORE — The U.S. is still globally dominant in many areas including finance and technology — but it’s not clear if the world’s largest economy remains the leading power that other countries look up to, said experts during a debate at the Singapore Summit. Speaking on the third day of the virtual conference, they discussed whether “A Leaderless and Divided World will be the New Normal.” The debate took place against the backdrop of a shifting global order in which the U.S. — widely considered the main superpower — is seen retreating from international organizations it’s led for years, while China appears to be rising and challenging American dominance on several fronts. One of the speakers, Ian Bremmer, president of political risk consultancy Eurasia Group, said he saw a world without leadership in the foreseeable future. “If there was going to be true leadership, it would need to come from” the U.S., he said. He pointed out that the U.S. is still globally dominant, with its tech firms growing stronger during the coronavirus pandemic, the U.S. dollar’s role as the main reserve currency and strength of American banks. But those strengths are also why the U.S. lacks the interest to lead, said Bremmer. A world without a leader doesn’t hurt the U.S. the way it hurts other countries, he added. “The Americans are not going to be hugely interested or feel the impulse to fill that vacuum in the near term, so I believe that we’re going to be leaderless and divided going forward for the foreseeable future.” However, Niall Ferguson, Milbank Family senior fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University, argued that the leadership of the U.S. has in fact been “very striking” this year. It can be seen in the U.S. Federal Reserve providing financial leadership during the depth of the pandemic-induced crisis and Washington showing technological leadership in campaigning against Chinese tech firm Huawei, he said. He also added that even if the U.S. did not step up as the global leader, someone else will because the world needs one. “The world has an inherent need for leadership. If the U.S. genuinely can no longer provide it, someone else will. Perhaps China, perhaps — who knows — a European Union who now seems to have its own relatively strong leadership in Berlin and Paris,” Ferguson said. The debate also centered on China’s rise as a global power and its attempt to fill the leadership void left by the U.S. But the experts agreed that China is still far from playing a leading role on the international stage. China itself has repeatedly said it’s not interested in replacing the U.S. or in exporting its ideology globally, said Yan Xuetong, dean of the Institute of International Relations at Tsinghua University. Still, the U.S.-China rivalry may force other countries to choose sides. Yan noted that increasingly, countries are seen siding with China on economic issues and relying on the U.S. for security. He cited Singapore, Japan, Germany and France as example of those who have taken such a stance.
>>875144 WWIII within 20 years, screencap this
>>874685 It is the Chinese version of "Make America Great Again"
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Daily reminder that Anarchists had honest to go god concentration camps in Catalonia.
>>871631 hongkies i agreeing
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>>874177 Remember when the US stole 200k Covid masks from Germany this year?
>>875647 this seems like a weird reform. I don't understand it whichever way i turn it.
>>875647 Leftypol eternally BTFO
>>875647 Xi pressed the button!?
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>>875673 Are you retarded?
>>875689 >>875685 >>875673 >>875647 They aren't planning everything 100% they're simply taking more control over smaller private enterprises so as to guide them into better service to the country as a whole. Small businesses are very dangerous if left unsupervised, petit bourgeoisie fucking love to be reactionary. This makes total sense and isn't as radical as the headline makes it sound
>>875647 cooming.
>>875704 Still pretty based though.
>>875647 it's happening
>>875714 It is extremely based. My talk of how chill and normal this move is should not betray how badass I think china is. They fucking rule dude
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so is the questioning over? will all of leftypol now agree that China IS socialist and on the road to communism?
>>875733 You should always be hypercritical but this includes criticalness of criticism itself. Basically I'm fine with China. They've been making all the right moves so far.
>>875752 odd, if they are subhumans then they couldn't be a threat anyway, right? nazi cognitive dissonance at play again, lmao
>>875733 Since when do the workers own the means of production in China?
>>875698 >>875704 >>875691 >>875733 >so is the questioning over? will all of leftypol now agree that China IS socialist and on the road to communism? No. It seems you all got hyped up by the headline. read what the reform does, it makes sure that businesses employ a certain number of party cadres and says those cadres will do something (?) to ensure those businesses are run in everyones interest. All very weird imo. In not one to be completely pessimistic on china but idk.
>>875733 They will not be until they have a second revolution after their consoomers in burgerville stop consooming (burgerkrieg actually happens and I get to stop calling my country a greasy sandwich).
>>875691 green = continue deng economy yellow = ancap/burger economy red = communism
>>875532 I'm sure Germany doesn't either.
>>875774 China: going full fascism /leftypol/: is this communism?
>>875810 >muh chinazi
>>875824 China is not fascist but in practice, is closer to it than socialism, since the productive forces are controlled by the state rather than the proletariat.
>>875810 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA PRRRRRRFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTT hehehe i caca my panties <AWOOOOOOOOOOOOGAAAAAAAAAAAA gommN1sM fAg1dzm wUd r duh diffR3nz
>>875837 The communist party controls the state, who controls the mass membership communist party?
>>875845 The Secretariat of the party, whose head is the leader of the state.
>>875837 >the state is a separate entity from the people Is it retard hours? The state is a tool, and the proletariat controls it.
>>875912 How? The leadership is entirely unelected and are career politicians, far from any kind of proletarian representative system.
>>875915 They're elected by the lower rungs, the electoral system just resembles old ML states. If China is fascist, so were basically all the 20th century socialist states I'm aware of. People can elect representatives to the local bodies, and the representatives up for election are often chosen by either the party or some other groups (I don't know the details, I just know formally there is some wider pretense that it isn't just the party that selects candidates, even though I have little doubt that it is probably the case the party selects candidates in most cases). Those representatives then elect representatives to the greater national bodies, which ultimately elect the central committee etc. But of course even the CPC recognizes that the true pool of people's representatives comes from the CPC itself, which has criteria for membership. So the conditions for who gets into state power are more guarded by access to CPC membership than by the local elections themselves. But this is still just like the old 20th century socialist systems. The party membership is always regulated to some degree, and the state is always controlled by the party. So naturally, the party is regulating who has access to state power, and in effect limiting any direct democratic power over the central state that local elections have. Maybe some consider this fascism, but I don't think an undemocratic state is the only requirement for fascism, nor is an economy with heavy state intervention.
>>875930 Does this mean the entire leadership of China is ultimately elected, including the General Secretary? Is China's electoral system any improvement over the USSR's?
>>875958 I don't know because I'm not sure of the specifics of China's system. Plus, nobody really knows for sure what China's long term trajectory is. Right now it obviously looks very "revisionist" in its trajectory so plenty of people would say it isn't an improvement, but then again the USSR's party literally abolished itself and dissolved the state. The CPC might be closer to real democratic access, but that is only because from what I understand there is some mechanism for other groups to put up candidates, but they have to be from the CPC because China is a one party state. But in practice the lower bodies are not going to organically change the structure of the highest bodies like the Standing Committee because the pyramid structure of the state means that the people already in positions to attain such a level of power are also in positions to punish or harass lower level members. Basically there is a level of political patronage coming from above, and the most powerful members of the CPC are going to have their own networks of influence that aid them in pursuing their goals. Which isn't to say the entire thing is as Machiavellian as it could be construed, I don't doubt that it is still possible Xi Jinping for instance is actually driven by a particular ideological stance rather than just crude self-interest. But he clearly thinks he and people who agree with him (or will support him) should be in powerful places, and so if it were possible for a lower body to have an attempt to remove him then he'd have incentive to preempt it with purges or something. In practice these things always happen at very elementary stages rather than during actual democratic appointments by the Politburo or whatever. The lower body will unanimously agree to appoint somebody to some higher position because the decision was essentially already made before the vote through those networks of power. But those networks of power are not entirely unanimous, and also not so cut throat as to always resolve into arrests or purges. Behind the scenes there will be deliberations and disagreements and even polling as to who should be nominated for higher positions, but once the decision has been made everybody has to publicly show agreement, and once higher office has been secured by some individual they basically will have to make some big fuck ups in order to actually be removed. The way the party works makes it so that once you get there it would be very politically disruptive to have you removed for someone else, so if it can be avoided then it isn't going to happen. Xi clearly has a shitload of power and probably won't be removed unless he really fucks up or I don't know, all of his biggest allies die of old age or something.
>>875930 >If China is fascist, so were basically all the 20th century socialist states I'm aware of. That'd be correct.
>>875930 If an undemocratic state was the only requirement for fascism, literally every western state would be considered fascist.
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>>876048 Cheeky cunt
>>875647 Wait it ain't 2050 yet
>>876048 hey man the hammer and sickle is mine, give it back
You leftcom pieces of shit will pay after the great Chinese world revolution I swear
>>876353 leftcoms are going to exist indefinitely; no future hegemony will even notice they exist
How feasible is it for an advanced capitalist country to adopt China's model? Let's take Germany for example, would it be able to exert the level of control over its businesses that China can over its own? Or would the bourgeoisie get too mad?
>>876864 it is hard to imagine, absent a revolution of some kind, that you could install high-ranking party insiders to the board of directors of some enormous German multinational like Bosch or Ernst and Young. ignoring whether any of the German leadership would desire to adopt that course, would it even be feasible within their political or legal system as presently instantiated?
>>876995 whoops, mixed up EY with Allianz
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>friend tells me china is genociding uighur muslims in far west china >tell him that part of the CPC policy toward Xinjiang involves rehabilitating terrorists and most majority-Muslim nations approve of Chinese policy toward Muslims >he sends me a screencap of his muslim friend saying he hates china >enhance >muslim friend has an al-qaeda flag for avatar
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>>875691 improved
>>876864 Why would they want to? China's model is contingent on lower relative wages and attracting international investment. Unless you mean their political structure.
>>871745 Not only that but the British basically ruled Hong Kong as a dictatorship.
>>877206 bwaha
>>875733 When has reality ever stopped glowies?
>>877383 Xiderman
>>877206 Report him to the FBI if not a fake story You reminded me of this moderate Syrian rebel group, supported by the US, that had the logo of early Iraqi ISIS (Mujahedeen shura council) on all its stuff
>>877206 I'm getting tired of that bullshit, honestly. Nothing but propaganda and glow ops around me. I am starting to question if a false opposition story would have to take things this far.
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If anyone wants to shill China on 4chan I usually use this little text always gets 10+ yous along with Pic rel China is fucking based High iq Ethnically homogeneous Conservative values No degeneracy Immigrants are treated like second class citizens Strong state Honestly? They are based.." The /pol/cels fight each other
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>>877556 uighur
>>877512 >report your friends to the FBI if they shill for ISIS based
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Why yes, I'm a Western leftist. How could you tell?
>>877577 >Why yes, I'm so desperate for a USSR2 I've acquired a pathological coping mechanism, how could you tell?
>debating leftcoms >ever
>>877587 If you keep posting this shit I'm going to edit Marx and Lenin on the right side and put Deng on the left.
>>877587 Deng is to the left of Marx though.
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>>877567 are you just retarded and incapable of reading, or do you actually buy into the uighur genocide nonsense?
Can any of you dengoids explain why China has landlords and private health insurance
>>877743 Speaking of health insurance, how the fuck did china contain coronavirus while america couldn't? Aren't the health systems equivalent in some way?
>>877751 I don't think they're comparable but even if they were the exact same system it literally is not particularly difficult to perform better than America in this respect
>>877590 that’s based, do it I’ll use it unironically. deng is the only one of them to have any real lasting achievements to his name.
>>877760 I'll throw in your good buddies at UNITA and the Pinochet regime to really give you some material conditions.
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>>877771 Dengoids will defend this
>>877560 >Dengautists posting racist memes Why am I not surprised
>>877768 >b—but Deng did bad things too!!! yawn.
>>877743 landlords need to be controlled or else they'll start an insurgency. >Demolitions of these hastily built structures are common in China. In Shanghai, the number of tall buildings shot up 583% in the first decade of the 2000s alone. Since all land in China technically belongs to the state, the process of demolishing buildings is a quick and ruthless one. Done with little fanfare or litigation, most residents give into developer’s compensation offers, and holdouts to this process are dubbed “Nail buildings.” >Chinese academic Chen Daoyin commented that “[the property owners] were trying to play with others’ fear by demonstrating the symbol of a mighty ruling power.” >no healthcare exists in communism socialism!!!!! https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0168851015001864 copə
>>877784 >cope Actual "Alien pretending to be leftypol" tier. Nobody is coping about you needing to control the landlords you reintroduced to your economy you retarded shill.
>>877783 >have retarded policy from nixon meeting under mao right up until USA bombed the shit out of their embassy >support pol pot >invade vietnam >support afghan warlords >support pinochet <IT WAS JUST A MISTAKE BRO
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>>877771 literally taken while mao was in control
>>877792 When you point this out, be sure to point out that most of the communist movement would forgive them if they 180d on these policies. They haven't.
There's an entire genre of Chinese amateur porn of women who can only get loans by posting nude videos of them. The more things do in that vidro, the more money they get. You can see them holding up their photo IDs too. They get extorted for a loan and when they can't pay back in time their videos get leaked online.
>>877796 Deng continued Mao's retardation, there was no break in foreign policy there
>>877790 >reintroduced Faggot, how did tianamen square, falun gong, eastern lightning cultists and corruption come about if landlords and capitalism were killed by Mao?
>>877804 Ultras will say that pornography should be banned, but the PRC has created socialist pornography. Yes it's built on misery and suffering, that's the material conditions at work.
>>877809 I also remember when Deng Xiaoping supported the Taliban and Pol Pot :D
>>877812 Non sequitur
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Have you read the "document," anon?
>>877817 The Cambodian-Vietnamese conflict lasted from 1979 until 1989, this was all under Deng. Guess on who's side China was.
>>877771 >le "red fascist" strawman no. 9376 Reddit might be more up to your speed, partner.
>>877824 Yes supporting Pinochet is totally based! Actively opposing Allende while he was alive is based! Muh productive forces were raised!
>>877824 Coping revisionist
>>877824 Yes, revisionists are fascists.
>>877822 >After that, China will enter the intermediate stage of socialism, and it may take decades. To this end, we can consider and put forward the third centenary goal, that is, to build a highly developed socialist modern country by the 100th year of reform and opening up (2078), which constitutes an important goal for the great rejuvenation of the Chinese nation Translated from here: http://theory.people.com.cn/n1/2017/1016/c40531-29589477.html China says they will START the transition in 2050, not be socialist by 2050.
>>877834 Social fascism by 2050
>>877823 omg he fought Vietnam once it aligned with Asean and america. This means he supported the khmer rouge despite their chinese aid ceasing once Deng came to power >>877819 How is mentioning these capitalists who developed during Mao's time a non sequitur when discussing accusations of Deng reintroducing capitalism?
>>877815 The pornography is raising productive forces by creating a vibrant network of decentralized microcreditors. Based and Dengpilled, as we say!
>>877838 >I want COMINTERN 2 <We have COMINTERN 2 at home COMINTERN 2 at home: Socialist Internationale 2
We need to exploit Africa to devlop productive forces
>>877839 >Vietnam aligned with America No, America aligned with Pol Pot and Dengoids went along.
>>877839 This post has to be out of a bot farm, there's nobody this stupid
>>877846 Reminder that the jannies found bots posting China shit.
>>877848 Kek, screenshot?
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>>877845 After pol pot Vietnam aligned with america and mao went along with pol pot, that is what I was saying. are you unable to read?
>>877848 The jannies deleted literally all my posts earlier this week for calling the Dengoids the same shit they call everyone else
Socialism by 3000
>>877846 Go shove a type 56 up your ass and fire it.
>>877834 Are there any other nations on Earth who openly declare they'll go socialist? WHY THE FUCK do you think they do this? Are they trying to merely please first world "tankies"? Are they merely "emulating" their policy and whole country for your eye? >>877838 (you)
>>877826 who even cares? you are really grasping at straws lmao. deng is largely responsible for directing the greatest reduction in poverty and hunger in all of human history. allende was doomed from the start and if you think that today Chile would be socialist if not for Chinese foreign policy (or even more juvenile, are trying to “cancel” him for his “bad takes”) then you are utterly confused
>>877844 glow harder redditfag
>>877862 >Trust me bro doing the exact same thing the West does isn't imperialism because we give better deals
>>877860 >Deng is responsible *Mao Deng didn't do shit, Redditfag.
>>877852 And to emphasise how psychotic some of the jannies here are on this topic, one of my deleted posts was from 600,000 posts ago Had to delete and repost because I got the number wrong lol
>>877869 Mao was magically resurrected during the 90s and led china out of the collapse of the USSR? muzzie chicken flag angry the chinese tried to stop NATO from bombing serbia
Mao: Leads China through industrialization, effectively ending famines, etc Deng: literally just builds off the base Mao set up but also lets Chinese proletariat be exploited by Amerikkka
>be amerimutt >notice my country is kinda bad >notice my country hates china <therefore china must be based >china says they are communist <so it must be true >communism is a bad word >bad words are really cool <therefore i am a communist >let me wikipedia communism >just learned about dissolution of USSR <kind of sucks bro >i guess this communism shit doesnt work out at all >wait a moment >china says theyre communist >wow we still have a communist superpower >thats based >i wonder how they did it >let me look it up <market reforms >thats cool bro >they make a lot of people rich >they have my favorite fast food >they eat mcdonalds <they're just like me! >jack ma creates a lot of jobs >he's like the based elon musk <epic /r/sino moment >marx is kind of cringe ultraleft and outdated >deng is more left than marx tho >marx says capitalism is before socialism >so we need a lot of billionaires so we can have socialism >because of the productive forces and stuff >their wealth will trickle down on us, like reagan predicted >only 30 years to go until the socialist china turns...um...more socialister >finally we are on the winning team of history <post regularly in the dengoid containment thread
>>877884 The weak willed from aristocratic backgrounds need nets to keep them from jumping from Foxconn buildings instead of unionizing
>>877887 Encapsulates Dengist thought perfectly.
>>877880 I think people are mostly pissed off the PRC bombed the Soviets and their allies on several occasions.
>>877859 Because Mao has a legacy that can be exploited via rhetoric Because they can't outright admit to being Singapore capitalists (yet) without backlash Because they have an ideological excuse with vanguardism not to hold parliamentary elections
>>877869 Mao was a brilliant revolutionary, but the dozens of millions who starved in the Great Leap Into Mass Graves and the Cancel Culture Revolution demonstrate that his governance left much to be desired. But since you maintain that he led the development of China from beyond the grave, it is easy for me to understand why you hold him in such high regard.
>>877887 >read le greentext on r/greentext >hmmm I wonder if there's a version of 4chan but they suck imperialist nancyboy cock even more <WOW THIS BATKO THE MANARCHIST GUY IS SO COOL AND HE HATES THE 1984 TANKIES EVIL RED FASCIST LE PEPE >write walls of colored letters with the less than symbol
>>877884 >Mao ended famines good troll 10/10, but no one has ideological blinders that opaque
>>877899 Mad as fuck
>>877899 based
>>877897 >Dengoid unthinkingly repeats the Western narrative Did Mao murder trillions of babies too?
>dengists start posting ridiculous arguments to insulate themselves from criticism Wow nobody would have predicted this from the very real principled socialist camp
>>877899 Stfu. Dengoid is the ultimate COPE. Take a single trip to China and tell me how it is remotely socialist in anything besides name. You Amerianoid idealize a state capitalist power to the point of orientalist obsession.
>>877900 Muh Great Leap Forward 80 billion died every second
>>877903 Don't you have some vital wildlife to kill and some steel to boil in the backyard filled with the skulls of serbian children
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May I have your attention, please? Thank you. I just want to say a few basic thing, really, and I'll be to the point. 1. Did it ever occur to you that people who have no substance to their arguments are rather harsh, short, and edgy in their takes? This applies to all "hot takes" and trolling over the internet, don't you think? 2. Does the old web-saying of "to debunk horseshit requires more energy than to write it" rings true to you? As a communist, are you tired of 5 word "debunkings" of your posts on /pol/ or other places? A very similar thing is happening here. 3. As a communist are you aware of "ultras" and their whole angle? Do you understand that literally nothing is good enough for them? Do you understand that they'll namedrop Marx while not actually following him? 4. Are you aware of the OVERWHELMING propaganda going on in the anglosphere against China right now? Do you understand what that entails, how it motivates people - people even on the left? 5. Do you understand how Americans feel insecure because their empire and hegemony is crumbling, and how that colors their view of China, the next contender? I could go on, but you get the point, I hope. People calling China "red fascist" have 5k upvotes on Reddit and 50k hearts on Twitter and some among us take this culture from there to here. Can we, reasonable people, moreover, "leftists", do better than that? I, or one, hope so. If you need further substantiation of any points here feel free to ask it from the community. We will assist you. Thanks again for reading my tirade, I guess.
>>877911 Serbians aren't human
>>877913 Shut up yankee revisionist
>>877913 >YOU DONT LIKE DENGOIDISM SO YOU MUST BE JEALOUS OF CHINA Literally the red adaption of thd american "they hate us bc they aint us" mentality Surely you are an American yourself.
>>877913 People on Reddit hate China for being communist, we hate China for not being communist. I hope America and China destroy eachother.
>>877913 >Do you understand that they'll namedrop Marx while not actually following him? PEAK DENGOID PROJECTION
>>877913 Thank you.
>>877913 (me) >just refreshed >IMMEDIATELY 4 posts, all short, ofc, going REEEEEEEEEEEE <these same people ACCUSE US of being "paid by China" lmao
>>877914 lol the eternal maoist reveals himself to be a nazbol talking about proletarian nations
>The amerimutt does not understand that neither China nor US is on the side of the proletarian >The amerimutt does not understand that current-day China and the peak USSR are worlds apart in global influence, aid of the workers movements, intellectual approval
>>877920 This. Dengautists should actually read Capital to see why their shitty system is doomed to fail.
>>877926 >"I don't know what a joke is" Stfu Titoite revisionist.
>>877925 We don't have to write long posts because nobody except you Dengoids is delusional enough to believe we are CIA Redditards.
>>877934 >ur just jelus lol You legit sound like you're from 1914 supporting Germany against France and UK
Euros are crackers angry at the yellow man
>>877925 Yes the US state department is enforcing Stalinist ultraism
>>877934 Who the fuck do you think we are? Stop strawmanning you retard. We will all be happy the day the USA collapses.
>>877936 t. whitoid LARPer
>>877935 Sounds like he's a modern American actually
SUCCESS BREEDS JEALOUSY
>Dude I don't think Marxism and a system that is Reaganomics with nationalist principles is compatib- <UR JEALOUS!!!!!!!!!
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>>877943 dog bless :DDDDD
White Western Dengists on their way to call anyone who opposes their retarded China simping white Western leftists
>>877916 >yankee uighur, I'm ex-soc country >>877917 >thd point and case >>877919 >I want apocalypse <the same poster who did the red fascist meme before >>877920 Well then give us a 3 paragraph long Marxist text criticizing China from a Marxist perspective instead of calling them poopoo heads, dude. It will be addressed if you do it honestly. >implying you can, lol
>>877944 burger detected
>>877947 >I'm ex-soc country Even worse, traitorous butthurt balt revisionist.
>>877948 The eternal revisionist crawls into his hole and screams "American"
>>877947 >he made a typo so his point is invalid yet i expect essays on why billionaire class is incompatible with socialism and why a 70 year NEP is inherently retarded
>>877956 Looks American to me
>>877953 Bro you don't get it the party controls the billionaires except for how they dictate economic planning, are in the party and how China is further privatizing the economy you don't get it bro read Marx ultra
>>877921 cheers, comrade
How does the existence of billionaires help develop productive forces? Can productive forces not be developed by "just" millionaires? There are multiple capitalist nations prospering with 1 or 0 billionaires. Only 2700 exist worldwide, thereof 800 in China. China is actually overrepresented amongst billionaires in comparison to their population. This doesn't even include the HK billionaires. Explain this to me Dengoids.
>>877953 can you even write an essay, tho, or did chans and memes fry your brain? legit question so far that post received REEEEEEEEEEEe and no substance. That's a fucking fact.
From the perspective that China is actually a capitalist state, what are some predictions for the world in light of crumbling US hegemony and the general decline of neoliberalism? Is this not the more important question?
Planned economics turned Albania and China both from feudal backwaters into modernized countries on par with the imperialist West Market "socialism" has done nothing for China relative to planned socialism
>>877966 >can you write an essay >himself writing three lines >ignores a post because of a single typo
>>877968 A yes Titoist China is a place that exists
Mao saved China from Amerikkkan exploitation Deng sold China to Amerikkka
>>877972 As much as Communist China
>>877975 bro is titoist China lemuria?
Critical support for Comrade Yeltsin. Market liberalization is needed to develop socialism.
>>877967 1. China will increase nationalism and Han chauvinism as its ROP decreases and pressure mounts. 2. China will increase its penetration of other countries' economies to counter falling ROP, just like Europe is doing by entering the Chinese market. 3. The factories will move to lower income countries as China develops 4. Neoliberal countries will adapt state capitalism to prolong their lifetime 5. Line between state capitalism and corporatism/fascism will blur in the Western world 6. Non-aligned movement will appear in the third world
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Albania
>>877978 Bro is any Dengist argument good?
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>>877985 Looks based
Reminder no Dengists have finished Capital or else they wouldn't be Dengists
Where did all the Asian Dengists go? It's bed time for Americans, not them. They should be getting the last word. Where you at fam?
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>>877956 super extra mega based
Reminder that Hoxhaists never finished grade school, as they would not be worshipping an Albanian nationalist if they had.
>>877993 Dengoids >think Marx was historically determinist when he coined historical materialism >disregard Marx meant that the material basis needs to be on a 1860s UK basis for socialism to be able to develop, not on s Star Trek: The Next Generation level >cite a very limited interpretation of Marxian historical materialism as an excuse for capitalism >at the same time call Marx outdated and ultraleft
>>877998 >Albanian nationalist Retard
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>>877933 >We don't have to write long posts
>>878000 Unless not wanting your country invaded is nationalism lol
>>878000 Trips of Truth Ghost of Hoxha and Mao will avenge socialism
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>American bed time >Dengoids stop posting Hmmmmmm Maybe >>877887 is true...
>>878015 All Dengoids are glowies USA and China are allies lmfao
>>877965 >How does the existence of billionaires help develop productive forces? Can productive forces not be developed by "just" millionaires? Completely besides the point. Deng started a new NEP because USSR went HURR against them and the USA offered trade deals. They literally took the imperialists' offer and used it for their advantage. Yes, nobody denies that they have billionaires. No, nobody thinks this is "cool" in itself. >China is actually overrepresented amongst billionaires in comparison to their population. In this exact context this shows how far they achieved. >This doesn't even include the HK billionaires. Right, because HK is a different thing altogether, lol.
>>878018 Reminder that CPC admitted to wanting Biden to win so they can return to business as usual and keep on intensifying economic relations and trade with the capitalist West
>>877970 >>himself writing three lines nigga, just cope elsewhere >>877913 (me)
>>878011 >we have pics <so we don't have to write long essays how is this even any better, lol? You just admit that your whole thinking is at the level of memes.
>>878022 Sauce plox
>>878028 sauce: Trump post made by: Vaush
>>878021 >Deng started a new NEP <70 year NEP Great NEP you have there buddy. Have you read a single Lenin text about the NEP? >because USSR went HURR against them Lmao it was Mao who started the retardation that was Three Worlds Theory to justify turning into an American lapdog. The Sino-Soviet split was completely unnecessary. >In this exact context this shows how far they achieved. <believes in trickledown economics Mein Gott are you Dengoids retarded. Is Saudi-Arabia closer to socialism because they have a lot of billionaires?
>>877994 Too boring, repeating the same many times. Only legit criticism is that it depends on the CPC internal ideological struggle. Outcome is unknown.
>>878027 Your argument is "U GUYZ R JEALOUS REDDITORS", a complete strawman. Just because you write longer doesn't mean it's anything of note.
>>877994 At least 99% of posters on this site are non-Asian. If you want to see Asians on imageboards go visit https://adnmb2.com , https://komica.org , http://www.2chan.net , https://www.maloloschan.com
China economics is shit. >Export consoomer shit to America >Once America inevitably collapses, need to find new markets >Entirely dependent on whether or not Europe and Africa will buy consoomer goods and the chaotic market Seriously China's economy is shit. How is exporting mass manufactured goods reliable at all, especially with automation? Plus their entire upside is high population but their population is actually shrinking so even if Porky doesn't automate he's just gonna move it to India or Nigeria.
>>878037 Dengist capitalism restoration was purely for lining his buddy's pockets. Can Dengoids explain how exporting mass manufactured goods does morego develop productive forces than a planned economy that works entirely for the people and not for the market?
>>878037 If labour conditions are improved and harmonised in india and nigeria porky has nowhere to go
>>878037 It's the tragic that the one country that could realistically have a semi-autark socialist economy is so dependant on foreign porkies buying their shit instead.
>>878040 They will cry about >But USSR collapsed >Marx is ultraleft cringe >We need capitalism first bc historical materialism
>>878041 That's when he will be forced to automate and capitalism will transition into either neo-feudalism or socialism.
>>878036 And yet half this thread LARPs as epic chinese guys fighting against evil american, even though the LARPers are USanos and the responders are not
>>878031 <<70 year NEP Nobody really knows how long this period will take. However, the thing that must be stressed, is that UNLIKE ANY OTHER COUNTY ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH China is turning its trade relations with the USA towards a beneficial end. Pdf related China chapter is very fucking much related. The authors prove EMPIRICALLY that unlike p. much everyone the Chinese are actually LEECHING ON the US instead of BEING LEECHED UPON. This, in itself proves that they are fucking winning IN THEIR CURRENT STAGE of their economy. >Lmao it was Mao who started the retardation that was Three Worlds Theory to justify turning into an American lapdog. The Sino-Soviet split was completely unnecessary. I love how "anti-dengist" posters vacillate between being "Maoer than thou" and "Mao was retarded anyway." See what I wrote about ultras above. As for the "necessity" of sino-soviet split, I'm not an expert (neither are you), but I'm pretty sure Khruschev had to do with it. <believes in trickledown economics I have no idea what you talk about. China does, in fact, alleviate absolute poverty, unlike the neolib/neocon West. This is a fact. China does construct fucking towns and cities for LITERAL RURAL PEASANTS to live in, like every socialist project did in the past. It is not an exaggeration to say that China is currently arriving at socialist goals via capitalist means. >Dengoids You realize, right, that none of us call ourselves "Dengoids," right? Literally none of use think that the "Dengist model" is repeatable or desirable in the first world. Your WHOLE terminology is a misdemeanour, lmao. Any further questions or "hot takes"?
>>878031 >Mein Gott You need to go back to /r/Zizek. t. someone who actually reads Zizek
>>878053 Mao was retarded post Nixon in foreign policy, and good domestically. Not a hard concept to grasp you autist.
>>878037 >China economics (you)
>>878056 I don't speak English as the first language
>>878040 >how exporting mass manufactured goods does morego develop productive forces than a planned economy Planned economy is better at developing productive forces, but opening up markets is better at transferring already developed productive forces from capitalists countries. Exporting mass manufactured goods is just a bribe.
>>878054 >Slavoj Žižek says "socialism w Chinese characteristics" is CCP politispeak for capitalism w/o class struggle Oh no no no
>>878053 >A country with a GDP PPP p.c. of 20k USD develops faster than countries with 60k USD p.c. What a surprise
>>878053 >Anybody criticzing Dengoidism must in fact be a neoliberal This is the same brain disease that Americans have where anybody who criticizes Democrats surely must be a Republican.
>>878045 1. That the USSR collapsed is a fact. 2. No single pro-China comrade will say that "Marx is cringe." However, even Marx knew, and wrote about, how ultras were cringe. 3. P. much every single communist project had a state capitalist phase. Discussion about whether the Chinese neo-NEP is legitimate or not is valid, although you can not but shitpost, lol. 4. You have no actual points, lol.
>>878065 The Chinese NEP will have lasted a MINIMUM of 70 years. Are you fucking retarded? This is not a "transition".
>>878065 >No single pro-China comrade will say that "Marx is cringe." False, talk to any Chinese communist and they will show their disdain for Marx despite name-dropping him. It is not a coincidence that the Chinese constitution names 4 other ideologies besides Marxism-Leninism, all of which go against it, including the horribly cringy Three Represents theory.
>>878064 >>878062 >>878055 Observe the one-liner instant takes. Now re-read: >>877913 Here's a B I G ( Y O U ) to all of you faggots, lmao. Do you actually think that a neutral lurker reads this conversation and will sympathize with your side? If so, you are COMPLETELY deluded. Fucking look at yourselves.
>>878053 >You realize, right, that none of us call ourselves "Dengoids," right? Literally none of use think that the "Dengist model" is repeatable or desirable in the first world. Your WHOLE terminology is a misdemeanour, lmao. Follow this thread more closely and you will see earnest Dengoids roam, I promise you.
>>878073 >The more words you write, the smarter it is
>>878074 I've been a regular ITT EVEN BACK ON 8CH and not a single soul advocated for "Western Dengism," you absolute drooling retard.
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>>878076 Lmao stay coping about your """communist""" superpower
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UPHOLD SOCIALIST PRODUCTIVE FORCE DEVELOPMENT VIA QUICK AMERICAN FOODINGS FRANCHISE EXPANSION
>>878061 Guess what. I read several authors every year and I don't agree with them on many of their takes. Incredible, isn't it? GO BACK TO REDDIT
>>878060 a fucking sane post
THE FOLLOWING ARE TRUTHS >>878067 Not even the Chinese communist party knows how long will they remain in their current economic phase, and to pretend as an outsider that you know better is pathetic. They'll keep it up until it's not beneficial anymore. Face fucking realities, lmao.
>>878075 It's not just about "more words," but about not being merely "le hot take dude" and having any resemblance of substance. You guys are literally meme-posting and it's cringe af.
>>878081 >here, have a meme Thanks, but I prefer reading, knowing, analyzing.
>>878085 >i can't even into debate <here, have a pic that says "poopy poopy pants"
>>878096 They have a public plan. Read motherfucker: http://theory.people.com.cn/n1/2017/1016/c40531-29589477.html 2020 - 2030 - 2040 - 2050 - 2078. All as milestones.
>>878102 projected reality overwrites plans 101 shit
>>878098 >>878099 >>878101 Stop samefagging, Dengoid scum.
>>878103 So you admit your entire support of China hinges on a vague promise to some day in the distant future possibly begin a transition into socialism? lmaoooooo
>>878106 We support China for anti-imperialist reasons as well. You probably have no problem with supporting Venezuela, why not support China as well?
>>878108 Because I can critically support China against US imperialism without having to resort to praising state capitalism as a superior alternative to planned economies
>>878113 Ok good, you can also criticize China's current economic system without resorting to hyperbole, labeling it as identical to the US system. Not saying you personally are guilty of this but there are posts in this thread that use such """logic""".
>>878104 >samefagging Did you mean "posting" as such? Because sure as hell I did not assume a fucking name.
>>878118 State capitalism is superior to neoliberal capitalism, even Western porkies are starting to realize. However, I am not a capitalist, nor is there any reason I should support it. I am a socialist and think China isn't, nor do I think China will reform leftwards under current circumstances. Simple as.
>>878106 EVEN IF my last resort would be what you said here, I'd be advocating for a country that OPENLY declared its intentions (socialism). Don't you understand how your premises are flawed from their very conception, dude? What fucking capitalist country declares openly that they are actively moving towards socialism? LITERALLY NONE.
>>878113 Dude, they literally have five year plans. Like, wtf? Are you even versed in China or what? By these very standards China is "more socialist" than fucking Vuvuzela currently.
>>878121 >I am a socialist and think China isn't <I, as the center of the universe, am true X, and a peoples of billions isn't true X the ultra, ladies and gentleman
>>878135 The latter. Imagine being such a consoom brain that the government telling people not to waste absurd amounts of food could only be due to impending starvation
Buried by mod, still interesting IMO: https://www.strawpoll.me/20960474 Keep in mind >>877811 tho
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>>878135 That WHOLE article is a fucking lie. >>>>Chinese President Xi Jinping recently launched the “Clean Plate” campaign to ensure that food supplies do not deplete quickly and bring about a repetition of the 1959 Great Famine People ITT pointed out that there is a custom in China that you SHOULDN'T finish your plate because that implies that your wasn't generous enough to have offered you enough food. FOR YOUR FUCKING INFORMATION, I heard that this holds in some Scandinavian countries as well. Imagine, for example, Finland introducing a law that the retarded superstition of "not finishing your food, otherwise you are rude" is no discontinued, and the West spinning it as "FiNlAnD iS sTaRvInG" - because THIS IS WHAT THIS FUCKING ARTICLE DOES, YOU FUCKING ANGLOS.
>>878157 >that your wasn't * that your HOST wasn't
>>878157 Nice try bro we all know the Chinese food system is on the brink of collapse!
>>878157 > is no discontinued *is NOW discontinued fuck
>>878162 fuck, bro, have can the chinese even cope i literally cant even
South Park, season 3, episode 10: "Chinpoko Mon," aired November 3, 1999. https://southpark.cc.com/full-episodes/s03e10-chinpoko-mon >makes fun of the very notion that "Asian" (Japanese) companies are going to overtake Burgerland. South Park, season 23, episode 2: "Band in China," aired October 2, 2019. https://southpark.cc.com/full-episodes/s23e02-band-in-china >actually falls for the "China is going to overtake us" meme. I hope you understand what happened in that 20 years, anon.
>>877784 1. But the landlords were reintroduced, what is the impediment to abolishing them 2. Please elaborate about healthcare
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>I am a Marxist. The essence of Marxism is change, [...] Barack Obama beat Hillary Clinton by stressing change. what did he mean by this?
>>875840 :D ebic
>>878168 Awwrr amerikunss you hava sucha big penis! 👲🙏🙇
>>878227 he means he's a dengoid.
>>878121 If you don't believe socialism is inevitable, you are not a marxist.
>>878168 they are lolberts what do you expect. Team America was pure pro-war propaganda.
>>878121 >>878240 I don't know how anyone can accept that porkies are now looking at the material conditions and thinking "yeah state capitalism seems way more workable right about now" and *not* see where the overarching historical movement is heading.
>>878242 They're not pro... Anything actually. Just nihilistic jesters who refuse to have any actual opinions, which may be good idk.
>>878126 Anon you're not welcome in the me-thnostate
>>878247 https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a25127458/south-park-climate-change-manbearpig-apology-season-22-episode-7/ They did admit they were wrong about mocking Al Gore for warning about climate change in 2006, so they do imprint at least some of their real views onto the programming
>>878245 Right? Like it's literally just how it works. The bourgeoisie STILL EXIST under a dictatorship of the proletariat... That's implied by the existence of the proletariat in the first place. If the proletariat exists, so then must the bourgeoisie until both classes dissolve into none.
>>878247 that's the façade. they are pro-america, status quo and capitalism, but they are also business owners with disdain for democracy and masses. typical right lolby shit.
>>878157 It is rude to not finish food someone gives you fuck you
>>878251 I think it's not that deep dude lmfao. They're 99.9% making dick and fart jokes for money. Not even that rich.
>>878253 (same) The thing about trying to analyze everything in the context of capitalism and marxism etc is like... Eventually you come back around to realizing most of this shit isn't that deep. Like... It's a television show man. With 4th graders who cuss and shit themselves. Relax a bit and enjoy SOMETHING
>>878252 "Rude" is just a cultural norm. What you're saying may not be true everywhere in the world in all situations. What the CPC seems to recognize is that regardless of social norms, wasting food is bad
>>878253 >They're 99.9% making dick and fart jokes for money. They are pretty political, especially after season 6. >Not even that rich. Most business owners are not big rich either. >>878257 Uhh ok? Do what you like the best.
>>878249 cucks
>>878122 The People's Republic of Benin and Somalia did this, in order to pacify the massive labor movement going on in their countries. Though despite carrying out a bit of land reform, they remained capitalist.
Has that censored PBS documentary on poverty alleviation in China already been posted? It is actually really good. It gives a pretty good glimpse into on the ground poverty reduction programs in rural villages. https://mega.nz/file/SMsDhArZ#vS7dPwnv5DVsbaB_GP4t3I61CWFzxdIRxix9ivHDsgI I can see why they deleted it, it even shows a kind of odd democratic process of the village deciding who is still in poverty and who isn't. Ironically, it seems like the party struggles to find rural villagers who will define themselves as being in poverty, or who will share details about their living conditions on that basis. They seem to consider it a bit shameful to be designated as in poverty.
>>879012 Why was it deleted?
>>879012 Another interesting thing shown in the documentary is the detailed information they collect. They don't simply check tax records or something to see what your household income is, they have cadre who regularly check in on village households to get data on material changes to their circumstances. Like whether they have children who went off to college, or whether someone in the household got sick, or whatever may have materially effected their conditions recently. Then they put the data in files and once they've decided it is all good data they upload it to a database for more centralized poverty alleviation branches to be able to query for detailed info. There was also an interesting scene where a local cadre that the PBS crew was following says that he researches farming in order to better grasp poverty reduction strategies suited to the farmers in the area, and then later he is talking to this woman while she is doing some work on her property about whether or not she'd be open to producing Mulberries for more of the year, and she tells him that she would but that she'd need to cross the nearby creek/river during certain times of year and it gets too flooded or obstructed to do so. So the party guy asks if building a bridge there might help and she agrees and he says he will put in a report to request a new bridge be built there. So it kind of suggests that poverty alleviation isn't JUST kind of blanket subsidies or mindless construction of housing and ghost cities, but also this very micro targeted stuff that is being generated by party officials living in the rural areas and constantly talking to people and trying to help increase the productivity of the villages themselves. >>879028 I honestly don't know. There wasn't any explanation I could find, so the only thing I could think was that PBS actually took it down because they thought it was too sympathetic to China or something. It sounds a bit absurd, but I really don't know why else it would be missing. The PBS twitter account promoted it back in May I think but if you click the link it is gone, and I couldn't find it reposted anywhere.
>>879028 >>879040 nvm, here is an article about it. It was literally taken down because it was criticized as too pro-beijing because it was produced in cooperation with Chinese authorities. Which of course makes sense, how are you going to follow around party officials in rural villages without their consent? https://current.org/2020/05/after-pbs-drops-film-pbs-socal-reviews-documentary-co-produced-by-chinas-state-tv-network/
CHINA UNCENSORED IS FALUN GONG https://youtu.be/_x15Cmhgb70
>>879160 forgot my picture
>>879160 very fucking good
>>879012 Watched some more of this. Again, very good documentary. Offers plenty of balance. They interview a relocated family in this city towards the second half, and they say that they preferred living in the country because they struggled to find work in the city, making it harder to afford it. The only reason they moved was because the government gave them a free house, furnished, and told them there'd be jobs.
>>879160 At 13:30 starts the real shit
>>879160 https://www.abc.net.au/foreign/the-power-of-falun-gong/12492696 https://archive.is/7jvAz The leader of Falun Gong claims that race-mixing in humans is part of an alien plot to drive humanity further from the gods.
>>878126 Billions of people live under capitalism worldwide and might even support it, does that make it better? What type of retarded argument is this?
>>878125 Do you smoothbrain seriously believe China has a planned economy, just because they formulate 5 year strategies? Lmfao And nobody talked about Venezuela you dengoid autist
>>878240 >Marxism is deterministic Another retarded Dengoid talking point. There's a reason Marx says "socialism or barbarism". It is NOT inevitable, because an even worse system might replace capitalism.
>>880098 >It is NOT inevitable, because an even worse system might replace capitalism. History is marching forward, but that doesn't mean there can occur some set backs (even capitalism was many times dismantled, before it could triumph over feudalism).
>>880098 >Marx says "socialism or barbarism" At this point I can't tell if you are trolling or an utterly brain dead pseud.
>>880098 Socialism is basically inevitable if you have state capitalism being guided by a dictatorship of the proletariat. If you wanna dispute how proletarian the CPC is, and whether it's following a really communist goal then that would be the part to look at.
>>880119 It is a paraphrase of Rosa and Kautsky who came later, but the point stands. Why even engage in a political struggle as Marx did if you literally believe socialism will replace capitalism without any further actions needed?
>>880102 Then explain me the need why anyone has to fight for socialism when it is so inevitable, instead of armchairing and waiting for it to end on its own.
>>880134 >Socialism is basically inevitable if you have state capitalism being guided by a dictatorship of the proletariat. The DOTP necessitates the existence of other class elements besides proletariat that must be subjugated. The example of the USSR shows us that those sectors of the society can dismantle socialism if they deem capitalism advantageous to their goals and have accumulated enough leverage. Anybody claimimg that SURELY the CPC will hold these people down for another 30 to 50 years, or that the bureaucrats and bourgeois will never mix, is really going out on a limb here. At best the promises made are incredibly vague appeasements.

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