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Anonymous 09/16/2020 (Wed) 14:39:31 No. 873124
How do Marxists explain the wild GDP gap? Seriously, I want to know, I'm not baiting.
>>873124 Marshall plan from the US helped
>>873124 Western Europe was always more developed from the get go.
>>873127 This, and also consider that most countries in the east never benefitted from colonialism
>>873124 Marshall plan. America was the only major economy untouched by war (WWI as well)
>>873124 GDP counts rent, of all things, as a productive force and measures growth as capital accumulation. It is a metric that measures specifically capitalist production. The fact that MLs frequently bring it up should tell you more than they would like to admit.
>>873124 The red part is chock full of factories whose production gets counted in the blue part iirc
The resources used to make products get extracted from the east, and proceed to be assembled in the west where they become products.
>>873124 historical reasons mostly
One was more destroyed during WW1, the interwar years, and WW2. You can guess which!
>>873124 SHOCK THERAPY i grew up in a town in the east and we used to go exploring all of the abandoned factories that were slowly decaying in the late 90s/early 2000s. when i got a bit older i found out most of that land was owned by porkies who bought it from the government for a symbolic dollar during the collapse and sat on it while it decayed waiting for an offer from western porky that either never came or when it did the factory was demolished and replaced with a massive supermarket gallery that mostly imported shit from the west. economic colonialism is a thing, as is landlord shittery
>>873165 One side also has a lot of historical global colonial empires while the other doesn't.
Asiatic satanists from the red army stole everything. The factories, the tools, everything. All this because Joseph Stalin himself ordered the red army to not leave a single building behind. "The goal of communism is the eradication of eastern european means of production" - Karl 'Soviet' Marx. Remember - The great marxist-stalinist satan never sleeps.
>>873184 Big if true.
>>873169 This is the true answer.
>>873124 All of the previous answers in this thread are really good, the truth is there's no one root cause of the underdevelopment of Eastern Europe. I want to reiterate, however, just how devastating shock was for the post-Soviet states. Russia itself had been under a planned economy for essentially the entirety of the 20th century, they never got to experience ththerapye Capitalism of the 20th century. The same can go for the rest of the post-Soviet states. While most of them weren't under Communist leadership before 1945, almost all of them were still preindustrial pseudo-feudal states. All of Eastern Europe was under a planned economy for at least close to half a century without any introduction to Capitalist ideology. So, when the USSR was illegally dissolved and the entirety of Eastern Europe underwent a Capitalist restoration, Boris Yeltsin (a literal CIA asset) and the oligarchs empowered by the west saw Russia and Eastern Europe as a sort of testing grounds for pure, unadulterated Capitalism. True Capitalism, if you will. The economic liberalization in Russia and Eastern Europe was quicker and harsher than any other example in history that I can think of. Almost every conceivable measure by which you can judge a nation's health worsened. Some figures show life expectancy lower than that of the Great Patriotic War. An entire generation of girls and women who grew up being told they could do anything (and it was true, unlike in the Capitalist US), were forced to prostitute themselves to provide for their families. Truly an Anarcho-Capitalist paradise, really. >>873169 also touches on this. :)
Jumped on socialism too soon. Should've stayed at state capitalism
Eastern Europe has been underdeveloped by western after the fall of the USSR. >Be dutch porky >Invest $1m in Spanish butt plug company >Butt plug company spends $750,000 building and stafffing a factory in Czech republic >Factory produces 1.5m worth of butt plugs >Company sells them and pays off its loan >ENDING SCORE: western Europe 2.5m GDP, eastern Europe 750,000 gdp > What actually happened: eastern Europe produced 1.5m of goods, and west eu did nothing productive.
>>873266 t. does the exact same retarded mistake as Khrushchev-era economists and expects infinite growth
>>873327 In that example, the value of the capital itself accumulated in The Netherlands, even as the physical commodities in which constant capital is embodied existed in the Czech Republic, and capital accumulation is what GDP measures. It is also one of many reasons why GDP is complete bullshit when talking about anything other than capital accumulation.
(89.83 KB 640x446 pg9gp8gdjdl51.jpg)
>>873361 "it'll be different this time bro just trust me"
>>873124 >instigate regime change >oversee privatisation of state assets, such as factories and machinery <wHy Is ThEiR GdP sO lOw??
Historically? Raped by Hun, Magyar, Mongol, Ottoman invasions, and by the Austrian and Russian empires. Take a comparison that is rather indicative of the developmental differences: France's peasant population is 17% by the end of WW2, Hungary's is 60% at that time, Romania's is around 70%. Then comes the Marshall plan for the West while Hungary, Romania, and GDR are paying war reparations in the East... Around 60% of industry and vital infrastructure was destroyed in Poland and Hungary in WW2. This is where socialism starts, bringing with it massive urbanization, production of agricultural technology, industrialization, a standard of living that was closest to the West's in this region's history. Then comes the regime change, reversion to capitalism, selling off the region's MoP, land, infrastructure, and resources to the West for literal pennies - a lot of which they just blatantly closed after buying, dominating these markets with their own products, hence wast unemployment, social ills, etc. in the nineties. After joining the EU these markets get further dominated by Western finance capital. Brain, workforce, and youth drain to the developed West is taxing enormously these economies, contributing further to population aging, destruction of the social safety net and so on.
>>873370 bro this is a different imperialism bro it's a different this is communism bro this isn't capitalism, different imperialism. It's better if the Chinese do it than American pigs bro
The USA came out of WWII mostly unscathed thus had a huge industrial head start that it shared with Wester Europe and Japan. The USA also used this advantage to make NYC the financial capital of the world and the US Dollar the de facto currency. The Comecon had to deal with rebuilding itself along with the rest of the developed world quickly aligning with America. Any time the 3rd world wanted mutual relations with the Comecon it became a major issue with the west (i.e Guatemala).
>>873490 Beyond that, American ifrastructure had already been developed to maximize long-distance trade. American railroads ran from coast to coast. The Panama Canal allowed safe and easy sea trade between the Atlantic and the Pacific, which was something that capitalist powers had desperately coveted for centuries. The United States had more deep-water, un-frozen harbors on both coasts than it knew what to do with. The country was a utopian vision for the global market that quickly grew from out of the ashes of the old imperialism.
>>873171 And one side also had basically the entire society collapse a single generation ago
>>873363 This is where I plug in Imperialism in the Twenty-First Century by John Smith The whole book is basically a theoretical work about how the modern economy is just a very typical porky scheme to have production happen in places like Czech, or Thailand, or Malaysia, or Nigeria, etc., have almost all the value get captured in some Western transnational firms which of course keeps the GS and Eastern economies in the permanent shitter; with the whole scheme basing itself on the unsustainable assumption that population will grow exponentially every year forever (unsustainable because population is already starting to stagnate on a global scale, or else it’s growing too slowly for Capital’s liking).
>>873124 West Europe had colonies, better climate, more resources and was far less damaged by WW2. USA was not damaged at all. East Europe is the opposite.
>>873124 <How do Marxists explain the wild GDP gap? Seriously, I want to know, I'm not baiting. >Western Europe has had the luxury of having a 200 year head start to industrialize. >The western European countries were largely colonial, benefiting from centuries of exploitation of the third world, a process that takes place to this very day. >Eastern Europe was flattened during WWII, while western Europe only received a fraction of the damage and loss of life. >Also this: >>873127 Gee, I wonder why...
>>873370 >the confederacy was against American imperialism Nominally, but they had imperialist ambitions of their own. I don't know why I felt the need to correct that, carry on.
>>873184 Death to you and your family.
>>879911 >>Western Europe has had the luxury of having a 200 year head start to industrialize. b-but anon, didn't you hear that for Marx the level of industrialization didn't matter?
>>873124 Noooo wtf OP we got too cocky
>>873361 They don't expect infinite growth. China is the fastest growing countries in the world, they have the most developed productive forces in the planet.
>>880433 >paid only 5% of war reparations How did they get away with it?
>>873124 Kind of pointless data without any kind of historical context/trend.
>>880433 that pic is retarded, tbh


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