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Anonymous 07/31/2020 (Fri) 23:38:38 No. 735783
How did we go from this?
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to this? What happened?
>>735783 the map is quite generous. >india being socialist
>>735784 the USSR collapsed because of economic pressures. with the largest sponsor gone, others gave up too. the collapse of the USSR was avoidable, and it is paramount that socialists of the 21st century understand why it collapsed. there were political reasons too, but my opinion is that even with their political system, it could have survived if the economic system was reformed. ironically, the USSR not being socialist enough is what destroyed it: it was, at the end of its lifespan, neither good at being capitalist, nor good at being socialist. being stuck in between is what led to the stagnation. the answer would have been cybernetic planning and an information technology revolution. with the base of the economy changing, the superstructure would have changed as well. perhaps the system would be more open, the siege mentality would be lessened, the democratic inputs would have been increased and the cynicism of the 80s would have been replaced with the optimism of the 50s and 60s.
Who's "we"? That's what happens when you try to replace one form of undemocratic production with another form of undemocratic production. The class contradictions will always dominate its historical development.
These maps are quite a stretch but you're right that we've completely collapsed as an international force. The Sino-Soviet split and the conflicts it caused helped whittle down many of the states on the first map, and a Brezhnev Doctrine between the PRC and USSR could have prevented this from happening. The old Maoists however were unbearably autistic and thought socialism was a contest that they had to win, and directed most of their energy against the USSR instead of their own projects and then wonder why most socialists think they're traitorous faggots. The PRC aren't doing a fraction of what they should be doing to win trust and if they carry on like this I hope the Maoists tear them all our their penthouses and line them up against the nearest wall.
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>>735783 This is the correct map
>>735811 >Iraqi Branch supporters FBIwaffen pls go
>>735785 >china being socialist >vietnam being socialist it should be like cuba and the DPRK with china and vietnam marked as social-democracies at best. and what happened was so much history and points of departure too complex to explore so instead it'll be meme answers like "revisionism" "stalin betrayed the revolution" "krushchev betrayed the revolution" "the sino-soviet split" etc
>Portugal is socialist Did I miss the memo?
>>735820 >Stalin betrayed the revolution Evidently false, without him communism would've fallen in the summer heat of '43
>>735873 USSR won WW2 in spite of Stalin not because of him
>>735858 They are basing it off of constitutions mentioning the word socialism in their pre-amble.
>>735882 Pretty sure regime wouldn't have had survived the attack, at least that's the conclusion some historians like Kotkin came to after exploring the archives. The meme "Stalin resigns and tearful party elite peg him to come back" did actually happen
>>735794 Cybernetics were well known at the time. The party bureaucrats didn't like it because it would largely eliminate their comfy jobs. This should serve as a serious warning to those who think that the CPC will be able to undo their liberal reforms.
>>735906 This is true. Another factor were republics being scared of losing power. Nationalism/regionalism is harmful for socialist societies
Could a succesful august coup have saved the USSR?
>>735873 >>735882 >it'll be meme answers like
>>735858 >>735885 Portugal is SUPER reformist, highly regulated capitalism is comparable to socialism for some people.
>>735783 now factor in the sino soviet split and expel the chinese
>>735858 When the Estado Novo collapsed the new goverment added a tiny preamble to the constitution calling portugal a "Socialist republic". It dosent really matter though. Asides from some of the initial supporters of the coup very few members of the new government were communist
>>735783 >>735784 >>735811 is there no accurate socialist world map?
>>735783 >>735784 Domino effect but in reverse
>>736114 >only requirement for a country to be socialist is to change a few words in the constitution and not even enforce them
basic rundown is the people's democracies had accumulated debts, the severity of which (among other issues) varied e.g. poland was in a worse state come 1980 than the DDR or hungary. all of them with the exception of honecker and ceausescu went ahead and implemented their own forms of perestroika/glanost, so got all the nationalism and shit that came with it. hardliners were usually pretty old at this point and were replaced by young "demsocs" and liberals, and the communist parties were removed from power or banned—the states ceased to exist come 1989-90. other socialist governments across the world (namely in africa) were already fucked by years of civil war, and their reliance on soviet gibs which had ceased under gorbachev resulted in them giving up as well. >>735906 >The party bureaucrats didn't like [OGAS] because it would largely eliminate their comfy jobs. when will this simplified meme die https://youtu.be/MtgXRgHJoTM
>>735783 Blame the CIA.
>>736265 TL:DW?
>>735976 Yes, but they would follow the Chinese route with regard to the economy.
>>735811 there should be color for dengism
>>735783 pizzahut
revisionism
>>736973 White :)
America came out of ww2 more powerful than any empire before it. The Soviets were probably comparable, but they weren't nearly as aggressive during the cold war. Capitalism's gaping maw of insatiable greed and absolute terror over the potential spread of communism gave them the edge they needed to crush communism outside asia, and pressure the soviet economy to the point of collapse.
>>735783 Perhaps the Soviets should have invaded Western Europe in the early 70s: >Massive oil crisis + recession in America >Tons of American troops caught up in Vietnam >Relative technological parity >Communist movements booming in Western Europe; they could help out through sabotage or direct participation
>>735885 The right-wing president of The Netherlands considers it "deeply rooted in socialism"
>>736995 should have kept going in 1945
>>736995 Nukes would destroy both sides if they did that
>>737007 No, nukes would not destroy anyone. Don't spread cold-war era propaganda. https://www.quora.com/Would-a-nuclear-war-truly-end-the-world-or-is-it-just-fear-mongering
>>737007 MAD is a boogeyman. Why didn't the Soviet Union or British Empire use nukes when they were falling apart? Their leaders realize that a major loss for themselves is better than a complete loss for everyone.
>>735783 Stalin had a paranoid attack and purged all the people with Big Brains from the government leaving left a bunch of oportunistic yes-men like Khrushev ready for the restauration of capitalism.
>>736209 >Communist >States No
>>736999 It certainly would have if Churchill didn’t get kicked out of 10th Downing Street. Some European cities might get nuked. But the allies would have tainted themselves in fascism so much that most of the world would be communist.
>>737012 >Why didn't the Soviet Union or British Empire use nukes when they were falling apart? Because A. falling apart was their own doing and an internal issue. B. It wouldn't have had done anything meaningful. Using nukes because your peasants revolt is something I'd expect from an incompetent 4X player
>>737010 That may be true in the 21st century but not in 1970s and 80s when nuclear stockpiles were much larger.
>>737024 >ready for the restauration of capitalism. Gorbachevian slip
>>737010 >nukes would not destroy anyone the fuck are you talking about? it wouldn't be an extinction level event, unless conditions were bad enough, but it would certainly kill a sizeable portion of the world's population and fuck with supply chains, agriculture etc.
>>737024 >Kruschev turns USSR to revisionism and calls Stalin an evil bogeyman >this is because stalin purged TOO MANY people
>>735795 Just don't comment in this thread then
Cause socialism doesn't work
>>739007 Found the glowie white supremacist /pol/ larper.
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>>738729 >Kruschev calls Stalin an evil bogeyman things that literally didn't happen #1 he explicitly says in the 20th congress that stalin's mistakes were made not in malice, but as a revolutionary with the interests of the USSR in mind. decrying stalin and blaming him for this and that was something which occured under gorbachev, e.g. "returning to lenin" and the "collapse of stalinism" in eastern europe. attacking the very nature of soviet socialism was a glasnost thing, which even the most liberal soviet politicians during "khrushchev's thaw" would have found inconcievable.

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