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🦅🗽 /USApol/ – United States Politics 💵🏈 Anonymous 05/26/2020 (Tue) 19:10:57 No. 531727
Edited last time by krates on 10/20/2020 (Tue) 23:00:44.
>>1016532 >70's
>>1016532 Considering they made America completely reliant on imports for things as basic as shirts, I don't think they're actually very competent.
>>1016505 >you don't want to see what mask off fascist America is like. It's going to happen eventually regardless. Better to have it happen faster and spend less time in the decline phase stymieing socialism elsewhere and squeezing their own population. You have the same mentality as libtard reformists who think it's bad to do revolution because people die. Newsflash, people are already dying all the time and the longer before we have a revolution the more people die in the long run. And that's without accounting for the worsening state of the climate.
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>>1016517 >No. America in decline is objectively better for the rest of the world. I take incompetent fascists over competent neolibs any day. Is this lesserevelism but inversed?
>>1016558 Yeah pretty much, some people just want something to "happen" and then voila, socialism somehow.
Anyone who thinks mask off fascism is preferable to the current state of affairs is retarded.
>>1016558 I'm not a burger and I'm under no delusion that socialism will ever happen in your country. But the faster it collapses the better it is for the rest of us.
>>1016574 Here's the thing. If it "collapses", rightoid fascists will just seize power. You think collapse will be total Balkanization but that's wrong.
>>1016573 Better yet some people in other countries want a fascist America to help their country? How does this happen? Who knows lol, Amerikkka owned.
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>this thread If only Lenin was here with us, he'd line us up and shot for our stupidity
>>1016574 I am not saying I am burger, I just know how lesserevelism is rooted within some elements of the left within the U.S., like Chomsky, Aaron Mate, and some others. I agree the U.S. falling apart will be finally a freshy air blow to the rest of us, but neocons are really dangerous, and I am scared that a violent revolution will make them take the power.
>>1016564 No. There may be some revolutionary potential in the US, but it's barely there (at least right now). There's a good argument to be made that a faster decline will make it develop faster, but that's of secondary importance. The real important thing is that it will get the US off the backs of the third world who do currently have revolutionary potential and only haven't gone socialist yet because of (mostly US) imperialism. Look at the failures of the US in recent years as it has declined: Syria, Venezuela, now Bolivia. The weaker the US gets the easier the rest of the world has it handling their shit, and the rest of the world is already more than ready for socialism. Stop being such an angloid chauvinist who is only concerned about muh poor westerners.
>>1016486 My point is that we don't know what tendency is at play here untilt after the fact. Maybe this trainwreck inspired non-voters to go to the polls, or maybe it simply scared regular voters into going early. In more sane times, I reckon the first would be much more likely, but faith in the system isn't quite what it used to be. >>1016495 Well yeah, we have been saying a Biden victory will be worse. >>1016573 It's a long theory hot take, but I would say a return to fascism becomes increasingly unlikely with time, for both cultural and material factors.
>>1016584 I made this argument already ITT multiple times and all accelerationist cucks have to say is "NUH UH, USA BAD SO USA COLLAPSE GOOD." I swear these people are underaged, glows, low IQ, or all three.
>>1016599 How does a FASCIST US facilitate this? Why would a FASCIST US leave the third world alone?
>>1016380 Just post magnets like on /t/
>USA "collapses" >Mask off fascists take power >Help fascists in Europe >Brutally crack down on any mildly left wing movements >Still exploiting the third world <Durr this iz better
>>1016411 Proofs?
>>1016605 Even putting aside any other possible new obstacles to the return of fascism, it's unable to rise without the threat of socialism. This scenario you're so worried about is defined by the lack of a threat of socialism at the moment capitalism collapses. QED.
>>1016618 I think the retard's logic here is that fascism is equated with incompetence and immediate collapse somehow, so he's inserting some additional logic here where neoliberalism is imperialism but drawn out and competent, fascism is imperialism but not drawn out, incompetent. So here the logic is that we can play dice with the world by betting on the chances that a fascist US would definitely collapse faster than a neoliberal one because reasons.
>>1016607 The US is not at risk of becoming fascist, at least not in the hitlerian hyserical sense. Like, say Trump became president for life/dictator. What would realistically change?
>>1016625 >fascism is unable to rise without the threat of socialism RETARD ALERT
>>1016631 He would defacto give power to his cabinet out of sheer laziness while acting as a mere figurehead, so the people in power are the same but the political situation has stablized. So the third world is still imperialized? I mean if you're accelerationist anon can you tell me how Turmp as dictator helps the third world?
>>1016625 If you haven't noticed, capitalists are very capable of manufacturing a "socialist" threat where there is none. For fucks sake, they're calling Biden a socialist.
>>1016638 It doesn't, but the collapse of the US empire does, which was the entire premise behind how the US would become an authoritarian state in the first place.
>>1016490 >any move to accelerate will only be disastrous Yes. And this is a good thing. >>1016517 Yes. Don't be an idiot. "Muh opponents are stuupid" is a very dangerous and stupid idea to have. >>1016553 Exactly. >>1016558 >>1016523 >>1016530 >>1016524 >>1016564 >>1016573 >>1016585 >>1016594 >Wanting and end to a hegemon is somehow bad As long as burgers get handouts, as long as they aren't in utter third-world conditions, things will remain as they are. We don't want things as they are, we want an end to the US's power. >>1016573 >trot supporting imperialism classic >>1016607 Fascism is more unstable than normal neolib capitalism. Nazi style fascism requires war and other shit that isn't compatible with modern day geopolitics. They would be on the losing side (as was Germany). Not that the US is at risk of becoming Nazi style fascist. >>1016618 >USA collpases This is the goal, the rest is your own fiction. >>1016628 Remember fascism tries to appeal to workers. When that doesn't pan out, shit starts to go sideways. Fascism is accelerated capitalism in that it takes capitalism to it's logical conclusion, monopolies, privatization of everything, war, etc. So what is the anti-USA-accelerationist argument? That it will be more imperialist? There will be a reaction to that. The US is arguably already reaching the limit the world will take on its imperialist "interventions" (read: carpet bombing and coups).
特朗普应该当总统会加速中国的崛起。现在鞠躬, 白佐。
>>1016642 Why does Trump being dictator collapse the us empire? You're inserting the hidden incompetence variable here, but it applies to both groups.
>>1016644 If it's reaching the limit then why does it need to collapse????
>>1016644 Why are third worldists such autists? An even more right wing authoritarian government taking power will not magically end US global power.
>>1016647 >Why does Trump being dictator collapse the us empire? It doesn't. The entire premise of this discussion was the other way around; Trump would become a dictator if the US empire collapsed. As it stands it'd collapse because Donald Trump is incompetent as president and the erodes US soft power, and his poor covid response is gonna WRECK the economy
>>1016632 The wealth of historical examples you cited sure convinced me. >>1016641 You're missing the point of the socialist threat in that process. Capitalists will not invite any other class to the table willingly.
<List of Biden Policies >Free Pre-K Childcare >Medicare 4 All >Green New Deal >Free College >Legal Weed >Abolish Electoral College >Abolishing private prisons, cash bail, and mandatory minimum >Pack the courts people keep coming at me with these policies, when the fuck did Joe even promise any of that? How many of these things did Obama run on and drop the first day in office?What are the chances of ANY of this happening? Can anyone name one good thing Biden promised that they expect him to do? Even minor things that are inconsequential? Did I miss a whole news cycle? What the fuck is this shit?
>>1016653 Most of those are bad.
>>1016653 The only thing on that list Biden is going to do is pack the courts with neolibs.
>>1016644 >>trot supporting imperialism Uhh no. A fascist government would amp up the imperialism.
>>1016653 God, remember how Obama also basically promised all of those too. Everybody gaslit about it afterwards, but this shit was essentially his platform. But awww shucks, he couldn't get it passed
why do people think the american right is such a huge threat? their biggest accomplishment so far has been killing two random people months ago in some town in wisconson, and the guy who did that only survived because one of us wasn't willing to shoot him. forgive me if im not quaking in my boots. there is no chance of a socialist revolution in the usa for at least a decade tho, we are nearly as disorganized as the right
>>1016664 Lol we are significantly more disorganized than the right, not even a comparison. The right isn't just polo shirt wearing retards in camaros.
>>1016631 >What would realistically change? >Nothing will fundamentally change (Joe Biden) Wop here. My two cents. Euro cents, of course. If it's true that Uncle Joe wants at least to extend the last remaining treaty about nuclear weapons still in effect between Burgerland and Russia, then that, and only that, would justify throwing your lot behind him. Also, but I may be wrong, I think the democraps are slightly less fond on launching a war against Iran to please The Only Democracy in the Middle East and their Saudi friends than rethuglicans. Apart from that, he told ya: nothing will fundamentally change.
>>1016664 You think "the right" is just those LARPers. No definitely not. The right is actually big businessmen, politicians, etc.
>>1016653 Their site at least had something about M4A and Green New Deal, but he already said these things ain't happening during the first debate, so... IIRC Kamala talked about free college on Twitter. >>1016661 >God, remember how Obama also basically promised all of those too. Well then making a collage out of those things would be a great way to expose their bullshit.
>>1016653 None of that shit is happening, this is that laughable argument hillarytards also made about "the most progressive platform in US history" or whatever nonsense they were saying to miffed Bernouts.
>>1016672 Frankly, the Iranian regime is shit, and if the US went to war with it, the US would break its back and never recover. The human cost would be awful, but in a sense I almost would like the US to be stupid enough to try it.
>Accelerationism? Fascism? Medicare? Imperialism? >Don't care, I just want Trump out of the White House and a decent President to deal with Covid.
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/leftypol/ BTFO
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>>1016685 Well, I had Mr B wearing his coolest sunglasses, but I wasn't expecting that straight away...
>>1016653 They're not happening. He has also not committed to packing the courts, he is not in favor of abolishing the electoral college, he is not in favor of legalizing weed (he said he is in favor of decriminalizing it), he is not in favor of the GND, he is not in favor of M4A. He has claimed to be in favor of free public colleges. It is possible they get something passed, but it is highly unlikely to be free college. What I'd expect is limited debt forgiveness and maybe interest free student loans for families below a certain income threshold. The free college plan has too high of a price tag to be easily digestible by the congressional body guards of capital, especially because Biden wants to raise taxes to do it (he suggests wonky loophole closing and adjusting tax deductions, but it is raising taxes and the donors know that). Several news outlets have been running stories that free college will "pay for itself!" from raised tax revenue later, but porky doesn't care about raised tax revenue for the state through growth later. He cares about his money getting taxed right now. So there will be pushback and Biden will doubtlessly back down to a smaller position. He is also in favor of expanding public school to pre-k but I'll be honest, small potatoes. Lack of access to pre-k is not the reason why people experience generational poverty or lack of educational attainment. It just isn't a big selling point in my mind. Everything else on the list is either outright bullshit or bending the truth though.
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>>1016707 The upside is, however, when any and all attempts to reform the Dem party from within completely shits its pants and dies, we'll get to bully Vaush about it forever, and he'll look like a fucking moron forever.
>>1016650 I'm not third worldist. I am anti-american. >>1016649 It's reaching its limit as in "acceptable" limit. Its ability to influence third world countries is deteriorating rapidly (thanks based trump), so it would need to do more obvious interventions. With the rise of China, the increasing independence of the EU (and the loads of immigrants it is taking in due to US fuckery), the increasing trade relations between China and Russia, the increasing development and trade relations between China and Africa and China and LATAM, Trump exiting a shit ton of treaties, etc all of this makes for the US to be a non-suitable hegemon long term. Many countries were willing to play along the US's fuckery, but now it isn't so clear. Also """populism""" is destabilizing countries and dividing them, meaning that they are unlikely to support wars.
>>1016654 None of them are bad.
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>>1016653 JOE BIDEN HAS A PLAN TO OUTLAW CHOKEHOLDS
So, Burgerland is so shitty that there are only two parties, one far right and the other "moderate" right or "centre" right. Basically, almost 100% of elected officials are in the pocket of one or another section of capital. And yet, they still have to actively rig elections at every step of the process... Fuckin' hell...
>>1016725 >With the rise of China, Only thing that could threaten America >independence of the EU (and the loads of immigrants it is taking in due to US fuckery), How do some immigrants make the EU less under the influence ok the US? Or am I misunderstanding your point.
Who do you think the kids are going to vote for?
>>1016739 Jo Jorgensen
>>1016736 immigrants who have been personally hurt by the US moving to the EU -> the EU becomes more hostile to the US
>>1016744 Oh ok that makes sense. Yes the EU is definitely less under the grip of U$.
>>1016739 My kid had a mock American election in school and Biden won 7-2. I have no idea why they did this as we live in Europe, but at least I can report that the kids here are ridin with Biden.
>>1016736 The US is causing the "immigration crisis" in the EU. The EU doesn't want immigrants. It is a huge overhead, makes Europe less nice to live in, makes people less content, and has worsened the neo-nazi problem. Some EU porkies are cockblocked by US interventions and sanctions. Like Iran's oil, business with Cuba, etc.
>>1016618 Tell me how the foreign policy of fascism US would differ from what we see today? Will they invade countries for profit and deposing governments on ideological and geopolitical reasons. Or perhaps they will support reactionaries and reactionary ideas globally? US already does all of this now in a massive scale. Bitching about "US fascism" is about yankee radlibs whining about US reactionaries wanting to kill niggs and leftists, but that is what they have always wanted and have been doing in the US and rest of the world. Believe me, mask off fascist US will be better than the current mask on fascists that is the current american status quo. they do the same shit, but with good public image and hide the true hideousness that they truly are.
>>1016763 The EU has been fairly helpful in destabilizing the Middle East. We can't blame the burgers for everything, you know.
>>1016732 >TheDigitalPenetrator.jpg KEK! Even though Mrs Reade could find that in bad taste. >>1016736 >How do some immigrants make the EU less under the influence ok the US? Or am I misunderstanding your point. I guess he means that such a visible and tangible effect of US fuckery in Europe could be even more reason to justify Europe going the fuck alone. Also, the current Emperor of the French has repeatedly shitted - or shut? i don't know, lol! - in public on Nato. He even said that right now, it is basically brain dead.
>>1016739 howie hawkins and kanye
>>1016774 >KEK! Even though Mrs Reade could find that in bad taste. Thank you! Finally someone gets my joke :')
I'm voting Biden. Honestly it takes like 10 minutes. All this squabble is meaningless.
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>>1016650 Why you have to generalize, nihha.
>>1016806 Yeah who cares tbh, people pretend it's some moral stance like they're challenging power by not voting but power really does not give a shit whether or not you vote. You are not challenging imperialism by failing to show up to vote. So the proper stance is one of complete ambivalence to vooting at all.
>>1016763 >The EU doesn't want immigrants.
>>1016459 >For all we know, voting on the last day will have a record low. >Every single Dem votes as early as possible. >Scheming Repubs reduce voting locations, machines, staff >Huge lines of Repubs on voting day for 16+ hours >Half of them don't get to vote >leopardseatingfaces.jpg
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>>1016777 You were saying, radlib?
>>1016823 >He thinks the EU wants immigrants
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>>1016763 >makes Europe less nice to live in As if American inner cities aren't already a legit failed state on a par with Sinaloa... That said, there's a complicity from at least a part of the capitalists of some Euro countries in shitting up some places. While it's true that American cockblocking of trade with "rogue" states is resented, it's also true state-terrorist organisations like DGSE and BND are fundamentally intertwined with CIA, MI6 and the lot and they play along in Libya, Syria and so on. >>1016786 You're welcome, mate! I'm a connoisseur, a man of refined taste and I enjoy such subtleties!
>>1016553 1 million people per year dying for 50 years or 2 million people per year dying for 10 years hmmmm which is worse?
>>1016653 I’m looking forward to all the excuses liberals will make as to why none of this happened, 2 years from now.
>>1016837 Okay, I just posted Erdogan, I hoped that would be hint enough. Noone who even understands the very most basics of EU-turkish relations would claim that the EU wants more immigrants BECAUSE ERDOGAN HAS ACTIVELY THREATENED THE EU WITH RELEASING MORE IMMIGRANTS INTO THE EU IF THEY DON'T COMPLY WITH TURKISH DEMANDS Noone who knows basic facts about EU politics could claim the shit you say
>>1016806 same i just want to watch /pol/ cry
>>1016854 stop responding to him lol its almost as pathetic as he is
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>>1016837 >Europeans don't but the EU is run by a Middle Eastern people 1. There's no such thing as Europeans 2. It's all home grown fuckery, I can guarantee you that you don't need some scheming arch-villain from a selected ethno-religious group to set up something as the Eu.
>>1016761 Cultural domination, broseph. The politics of the metropole are more important than those of the colony even for those who live in the colony. >>1016672 Frankly, I think Trump, stupid and bellicose as he is, is still far less likely to start a war out of his intuitive horror of "losing". He thinks on how people look back at Dubya and that's something so simple even his diminutive brain can understand the implication: don't go to war unless it's a guaranteed "victory". And I use quotes around losing and victory because his only consideration here is popular perception, not geopolitical goals. Porky is itching to end the Iranian regime, but by all reckoning, it would be far more difficult than Iraq and Afghanistan, and thus Trump just plain will not go with it. And that's the role Democrats will play, to take back the imperial machine from the hands of the child too afraid to use it not out of humanitarian concerns but for the simple sake of his image.
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>>1016852 So stopping n i g g e r s from being burnt alive, lynched, hanged to trees and so is identity politics? Blimey!
>>1016689 why the pubes
>>1016806 I already voted for him last week. I just don't like being gaslit by libs pretending he will actually do a single thing he campaigned on.
>>1016771 I demand an answer from the neo-con, i mean, trot, as well. >>1016773 That's true. >>1016820 No, one shouldn't vote at all. If you still take the time to voot, internally, you legitimize everything it entails. If you actively refrain from voting, you are forced to justify your decision by asserting that it doesn't make a difference and that you are against the system entirely. Stop being libs. >>1016823 Nigga, don't be idealistic. Nobody wants immigrants in their country. Libs virtue signal about it all the time, but everyone deep down doesn't want immigrants in their country. They are usually poor, do super sketchy shit like drug deal, are pushy, etc. I obviously don't blame them for it, and I'm obviously not referring to those that sell pirated stuff, which look totally harmless. It's honestly pretty retarded to pretend that people enjoy immigrants coming to their country. I'm not saying immigrants are bad or whatever, or that they should be denied, or some other shit. The proper leftist take is that intense immigration exists because of imperialism (imperialism = bad), and shitty safety nets and the state of capitalism in the EU only worsens the problems (bad worker rights and concessions = bad).
>>1016852 No no no and no. How the fuck are Jim Crow laws simple idpol? The civil rights movement wasn't whining about black characters in fucking cartoons, unlike you and the SJWs you whine about, they were up against not just systemic but fully legalized oppression and discrimination.
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>>1016842 Well, they haven't really provided excuses for all the other times these same things failed to materialize, so there. I suppose it makes sense. It's better to keep things vague so the carrot looks always within reach. Trying to explain it would expose the stick.
>>1016898 >If you still take the time to voot, internally, you legitimize everything it entails. The US isn't a legitimate democracy.
>>1016889 Why not? >>1016907 What a cute capybara.
>>1016907 lmfao. based post. I like it when he responds instead of just botting twitter pics. >>1016908 That's another reason why Trump is a better choice. It gives their suffering a face and a name, so they can verbalize it. Otherwise they seem incapable of finding a reason for their increasingly shitty lives. >>1016920 So don't vote. Stop pretending that it does something. Otherwise, literally why would you vote. Cynically "not believing" but voting is actually believing.
This literally makes no sense to me. If you have a competent leader that knows what he/she is doing and is helping the country grow, why the fuck would you fire him after he's only been at the helm for 8 years? 8 years is not enough for a good president to make substantial, long term changes; if the people are so inclined and keep voting for the leader they want, what's wrong with that? In fact, I'd argue that term limits are undemocratic as they rid the people of choice. To say that no term limits are a danger to democracy is to say you have 0 faith in the people's democratic voice and/or the system itself. Thoughts?
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>>1016938 Muy basado
>>1016872 I see your point about Trump, at least about his "instincts", if you will. I guess he tends to be anti-interventionist, but again, he's not calling the shots all alone. The neo-cons are still strong, just think about Bolton and Abrams being in his admin, plus people like Cheney's daughter already lurking from her seat in the house and let's not talk about Rubio and Cruz who are legitimate forces inside the rethuglican party. And Trumpo himself is entirely in The Only Democracy in the Middle East's pocket. I guess if anyone has really compromising shit on him, it's not the FSB, it's Mossad. Of course, Iran would be Afghanistan times ten. The only realistic option is regime change/colour revolution. If Uncle Sam goes ball deep, expect all the Middle East to go in flames like never before - as crazy as it sounds - plus Russia, China and maybe some others starting some strong tit-for-tat, like strongarming Mexico and some other Latin American country to take in their bases and maybe even bring nuclear weapons there. Of course, I don't trust Democrats at all and I know well they are just the "serious and competent" ones wanting to pull another Obama on the world. I was just saying that on those two issues Biden seems slightly less crazy than Trumpo, but he's crazy nonetheless and their stances on Venezuela, Nicaragua and Bolivia, for example, are the same and are all shit.
>>1016938 Porkey destroyed burger education and made multiple generations of braindead voters. The USA needs an absolute dictatorship that imposes high educational standards. They can have democracy back in 70 years or so.
>>1016938 At least in Mexico it's because of corruption. Leaders eventually rigged the polls so they could elect themselves forever. Plus a lot of propaganda against it. It's entirely hypocritical though. Merkel has been in power for 15 years, nobody gives a shit or bats an eye.
>>1016938 It's only ever brought up against designated baddies. Merkel reached power a couple of months before Evo but no one ever brings that up. At any rate, there is a legitimate concern there about power consolidation. The longer one stays in power, the more resources and opportunites he has had to completely tear the putatively democratic system through which he ascended to shreds. Ultimately, it's a problem inherent with representative democracy and which can only might -- might -- be solved by adopting a participative, popular democracy.
>>1016975 Well yeah, if the system is corrupt as shit, then yes term limits are alright. But it's more of a bandaid for an amputated leg if that makes sense. >>1016980 >a legitimate concern there about power consolidation. The longer one stays in power, the more resources and opportunities he has had to completely tear the putatively democratic system through which he ascended to shreds. that's a good point. New socialist democracies that will hopefully arise in the future need to find ways to check and balance power consolidation. Also, of course participative, popular democracy is very good, it's just a very hard ideal to achieve
>>1016938 Republicans brought this in after FDR because they were scared of such a strong popular figure emerging again. Remember, he won FOUR terms straight, and the last one he was basically dead. That said, I disagree on the point a president can't make substantial changes in a couple of terms. Also, even if we accept term limits as a matter of fact, any party worth its salt would produce enough figures with leadership skills to be able to have at least a good replacement every decade or so. I would be inclined to accept consecutive term limits - i.e. you can get elected two or three times in a row, then you have to stand down one term, but after that you can start again - not absolute ones or even better age limits - no one should have an executive position past the age of seventy, honestly. Anyway, in the current system, especially the American system, term limits or not term limits is a fake issue: are there any term limits for capitalists after all? So, why bother about their lackeys?
>>1016938 USA isn't a democracy and the president doesn't have unilateral power, he is a figurehead.
>>1016993 Nigga, any LATAM government is like the wild west meets house of cards. From what I've read of basically any other country that is isn't in the imperial core, it's basically the same.
>>1016771 >Tell me how the foreign policy of fascism US would differ from what we see today? Will they invade countries for profit and deposing governments on ideological and geopolitical reasons. Or perhaps they will support reactionaries and reactionary ideas globally? I want an answer to this too. Economically and in terms of foreign policy it appears to me that the path of Hitlerism is exactly what they've been doing. For this reason I don't understand how "mask off" fascism will be different from what they have now. I don't think US collapse will be like that of Weimar Republic. It will more resemble the collapse of the aristocracy in France, and take the country to a long revolutionary period. People who say there isn't an organized Left to take advantage of this miss the point. There wasn't a well organized revolutionary movement in France either. The collapse had to occur for such a movement to be able to rise.
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lol
Do you think there will be "Detrumpification" if Biden wins and the Democrats take the Senate? Like pushes for hate speech bans, big tech censorship of news that liberals don't like, redeeming the NSA by saying they'll expose Russian hackers and racists, etc.? Of course, all of this will be used against the left, but it will be cheered on by libs anyway.
>>1017057 Now THIS is the Wholesome 100 Keanu Reeves Big Chungus content I like to see from politicians in the imperial core.
>>1017057 no gods no masters all my heroes are corny af
>>1017057 I imagine someone like Rosa Luxembourg doing this and I cringe
>>1016938 It's about power and political consolidation, because in real world leaders are usually less than ideal, but any those are literally the last problems of representative "democracy". Strong government and long term changes even if pro-porky can be at best cases troublesome for companies. It's usually most of times better to allow some ambiguity in the superstructure as long as the base remains secured. Ever changing politicians lowers the amount and effect of unpredictable "political projects" by politicians and leaves more power for "economic realities" to steer the course of the nation, aka what is good for the porky. This is especially true for smaller nations that are dependent on trade.
>>1017025 Lesser evilism continually getting btfo over the past week.
>>1017058 I don't know about that, but I definitely think there will be criminal charges against Trump and his family. I see a lot of people on the left right now who are saying "oh, nothing will happen, it'll just be like Bush" but I don't think so. Bush's crimes were "crimes of the state" (war) which doesn't get you punished in America whereas Trumpcrime is just naked personal corruption.
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ilhan omar also has a twitch >gundam what
>>1017025 I really do have to point out again that the Democrats have decided to go for broke this time around. All they needed to win was pick a candidate who could summon up a bit of enthusiasm. That would have been enough to carry the "we're not Trump" gimmick to victory. Instead, they have decided to risk everything and put forth an awful candidate who provides a once-in-a-forever chance to install someone even more awful in the Oval Office. The latter is ready and willing to put the proverbial jackboot to the people's neck like no other American president before. All of this, with the end goal being to usurp Republicans' role as prime representative of capital. They went for broke: instead of an easy victory and a return to bipartisan normality, they chose to try to become hegemonic within American politics, and that includes absorbing parts of the GOP. I have always been dead serious when I said Biden would be worse than Trump.
>>1017085 >the virgin video game streamer AOC >The Chad Islamo-Gundamist Omar
>>1017058 There will be some clamping down alright, but you can bet it will be far heavier on Auntie Fay than on the most aggressive fashie bootlicker.
>>1017094 But, bro, the guy backed by "retired" intelligence agencies and Bill Kristol is the harm reduction candidate. We can have Madame President AOC in 2024 once the heckin cheeto is out of the white house.
>>1017085 ilhan is unironically kinda based, even if she is a radlib
>>1017094 >All they needed to win was pick a candidate who could summon up a bit of enthusiasm. Not to say that they didn't put boots on throats for biden but at the same time with their decimated bench, and the sea of conservative middle class boomers voting in the primaries, what's the best case scenario?
>>1017076 There also game theory to factor for. Even if an election winner doesn't intend to misuse power, his enemies might -- and when it comes to reactionaries, they always seize such opportunities. Putting them down will require some foul play. Fail to do so, and you get a Bolivian coup or a Bolsonaro. >>1017081 Normally I would say that keeping ex-presidents completely unmolested is a cornerstone of the bipartisan consensus which neither side would dare break, but seeing as Democrats are making a power grab of sorts, they might just do it. But most likely not, the consequences wouldn't be worth the trouble. >>1017085 An incomparably better guerrilla marketing campaign than that "Cuomosexual" bullshit, I'll give her that.
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>>1017125 >I got fired for my conservative beliefs <So you got fired for saying that the government should lower taxes? >No, I said that black people aren't human, gays need to be put in prison, and that women should be beaten
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Lesser of two evils.
When's the debate?
>>1017175 >b-but the heckin kids are in freaking camps because of blumpf!!
>>1017123 I reckon neither side has anything approaching a charismatic and/or leader personality by now, but in any case, people would be voting for "we're not Trump", not the candidate. Just pick a photogenic nobody like they did with Obama, play up the platitudes and cheerful messages about rebuilding the nation and sho on, and have the media, which is now conjoined with them, to repeat it ad nauseam. Guaranteed return to pre-Trump status quo. Instead, the candidate they provided is so terrible that the official campaign largely consisted of literally hiding him away in his basement. Even the damn campaign slogan is so awful they have decided to not use it, have you noticed that? Campaign slogans are usually everywhere, yet this time we barely saw "Build Back Better" spoken or written anywhere, and for good reason. But Biden's dubious status as a living being is central to this weird palace-coup-but-not-really scheme of theirs, so this time more than ever, they banked on simply being the lesser evil, and have dedicated more time to badmouthing Trump than parading Biden around -- a tactic which already failed stupendously in 2016 but that's how high the ante is right now. A risky move with a high payoff. The losing party this November might actually implode for good.
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>>1017057 >WAOW!
>>1017148 It's not an on/off switch. An average American citizen right now benefits to some degree from oppression of foreign countries, yet he's being squeezed dry more than ever. >>1017175 On the other hand, have arrests decreased as well? Because a higher population in those concentration camps isn't exactly an improvement over deportations.
>>1017178 Thursday the 22nd, 9-10:30 pm ET.
>>1017179 Again, another reason why Trump's children concentration camps are better than Obama's. They are the same concentration concentration camps, except one is visible and the other isn't.
>>1016664 >why do people think the american right is such a huge threat? Neocons descend from trotskytes crazy enough to justify everything that fights the red menace, even if that justifies Somoza or Iranian Sha.
>>1017225 It is not yet confirmed and might not even happen at all.
>>1017267 I think it hinges on whether the moderator can cut the microphones. Trump will simply not accept it. By the same reasoning, I was sure there would be not debates at all because Democrats had demanded a fact-checking panel, but they relented.
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>>1016907 >The thingy is a cute rat-pet. Quick, someone draw Alunya petting the little rat.
>>1016938 Because liberalism born demolishing monarquism, and the premise of it, is that we have to renew powers in order to avoid pseudo-manarchies.
>>1016739 Whoever they see on TV the most.
>>1017017 >the president doesn't have unilateral power He does in some areas. Trump could unilaterally end all the wars right now if he wanted to, since none of them were declared with congressional approval. That's why it makes no sense when Qtards to say shit like "he wants to end the wars but those dang Demonrats won't let him!"
>>1017244 Obama's camps were visible too, but liberals don't give a shit as long as it's a Democrat.
>>1017293 In that sense, this electoralism is akin to the dictatorships of the Roman Republic. Until a Caesar comes along and sends everything back to square one.
Does anyone feel like American rightoids have gotten even fucking dumber than they were in the Bushie era? Like, everytime I interact with one theyre so nakedly and openly morally and intellectually bankrupt it makes me wonder if there will come a point that this country collapses solely because of how obscenely stupid and disconnected from reality a large chunk of the populace is also, am I just misinformed or does it feel like they don't even have real positions anymore? It seems like everything they whinge about revolves around unwinnable culture wars and beating back "soshulism" honestly, FUCK THIS COUNTRY
>>1017426 wait who is this guy? he dead or just unconscious?
>>1017426 >does it feel like they don't even have real positions anymore? Did they ever? Right-wing policies hurt the working class, so porky uses pointless wedge issues to get their votes instead of policies.
>>1017426 They are definitely not dumber lmao, hard to get much dumber than the Tea Party era of conservatism.
>>1017479 but they are literally those people, except they got even dumber in the last 10 years
>>1015978 >trump wins the black vote holy fuck imagine
>>1016653 He's against most of those tho
>>1017550 >Inb4 pewdiepie joins the party.
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>>1017057 >>1017550 Whatever gets more zoomers invested in politics I guess.
>>1017550 That slow, but steady march to liberalism, AOC is doomed to turn herself into a Pelosi.
>>1017550 I fucking hate how bourgie politics is seeping into video games.
>>1017569 How is this liberalism exactly?
>>1017057 fuck among us critical support for TTT
>>1017575 happiness is a bourg invention
Isn't Among Us a game you have to pay for? I don't buy flash games.
>>1017581 Politicians just playing games for fun wouldn't be a problem, the problem is when they use it as a vehicle to "get out the vote" for an odious neolib.
>>1017575 How is it not? Tell me what policy is she bringing with at theatrics? why isn't she in the streets studying the material conditions? I am not her to know what she does for her community, but doing that charade is too unhinge herself of the real problems. Prole, lumpen, workers, aren't behind a screen of a laptop waiting to talk to their politician.
>climate is collapsing >fascism is rising >a plague is killing thousands in this country <LoL let's play this epic vidya game with some le epic streamers to get everyone to V0000000T kill me
>>1017589 Look man gotta empower the dems to get policy done? What policy? Green New Deal? Too radical. M4A? Also too radical. Public Option? Meh, too radical probably. Public housing? Nope, interferes in the markets, upsets investors. Uhhhh financial regulation? Nah. Well at least Trump is out of office right? Same imperialism though, plus it doesn't fucking matter because Supreme Court is full of arch reactionary """""""originalists""""""".
>>1017589 >>1017592 This is like some Nirvana fallacy. One person can only do so much and radicalize so many people 24/7. I don't see using a game to push for political awareness makes this liberalism when literally anyone can do it.
>>1017581 >le edgy b8.
>>1017603 >playing games on twitch = praxis >defending fucking AOC go back to /r/politics retard
>>1017573 vidya has been bourgie for a long while. It's just became soulless too.
>>1017602 And that's why you should stay with the base, so once all of that is upon you, the base won't let you go down. >>1017603 First radicalize the base and the worker class.
>>1017610 I don't even think it is praxis, it is at best a publicity stunt. I just don't see how it automatically liberal. >>1017614 Like I said, one person can't all her time and energy to do that and still get it through.
>>1017592 >>1017610 Leftists are terminally anti-fun. Leftist idea of engaging with normals is making hour long black screen captioned videos about arcane topics of crusty theorists. Rightoids will stream vidya on twitch memeing and casually dropping "redpilled" propaganda while leftists whine about it being bourgeois and liberal. Now guess who draws more people in
>>1017622 Because that stunt as you named it, has 0 policies for the worker class or class consciousness towards the worker class. Typical of liberals.
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>>1017124 >Democrats are making a power grab of sorts Democrats are being willing cucks to Trump's fascoid power grab. That's why they're not saying anything about the fascist Whitmer kidnapping/execution plot or Trump's naked appeals to reject the legitimacy of the vote. As another party with interests in the corporate war machine, they fear a real working-class uprising against the corporate-fascoid dictatorship takeover led by Trump so they are trying to lull the masses to sleep that the only thing at stake is just "getting out the vote".
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>>1017631 >yfw Oh, hi /pol/. Lurking to see if you can convince someone who disagrees what's liberalism is based on a videogame streaming to see if you can debase us? Go find a chin.
>>1017632 >Because that stunt as you named it, has 0 policies for the worker class or class consciousness towards the worker class. That's not how publicity stunts work. You are meant to hook normie and casual people in with shit like this.
>>1017631 >he thinks the right's propaganda against zoomers is working please talk to someone outside of facebook
>>1017631 >Among Us >fun
>>1017631 how dare we take politics seriously and encourage people to actually read instead of basing our ideologies on zoomer culture and memes
>>1017644 The most normie people are workers, because they don't have time to lurk places like this or read books. Even rare they can spend time playing video games.
>>1017664 >twitch >workers and not NEETs and barely literate children
🎶Now, AOC does not bother me. Does your conscious bother you? Tell the truth🎶
>>1017631 >Leftist idea of engaging with normals is making hour long black screen captioned videos about arcane topics of crusty theorists. soul >Rightoids will stream vidya on twitch memeing and casually dropping "redpilled" propaganda while leftists whine about it being bourgeois and liberal. soulless
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>>1017631 >Rightoids will stream vidya on twitch memeing and casually dropping "redpilled" propaganda while leftists whine about it being bourgeois and liberal. Now guess who draws more people in
>>1017669 I highly doubt that workers spend time on twitch, even in the U.S. No, your white collar worker that can work 6 to 8 hours daily, with free weekends don't count. They are against socialism, anyway. I am talking those working 10 to 12 hours 7 days a week, insulated within a production chain. Those.
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SHE'S LIVE shill cockshott in the chat https://www.twitch.tv/aoc
of course workers spend time playing games and watching twitch. what the fuck are you talking about? why would that even be a question >>1017687 by those standards there are no first world workers
>>1017631 He's right in a way. Rightoids have more fun and despite the schizo messaging about being "social conservative" while crossdressing and shoving dildos up there asses. This is also why they won't win, they can copy liberal culture but the messaging gets lost and fails to really mobilize.
>>1017692 >by those standards there are no first world workers Nihha, in the U.S. there's a lot of workers with those metrics: 10 to 12 hours daily, no weekends free, and totally insulated. See? You need street and praxis, so you can know that the real approach is not twitch.
>>1017687 Yeah that's what I meant by my meme arrows but honestly AOC being on twitch ain't that big of a deal, it's just some retarded "get out the voot" shit which is standard politician nonsense. I just don't like "zoomer culture" and twitch out of secondhand embarrassment.
>>1017702 Oh, no, no. I am not saying it is a big deal, it is just she's heading towards liberalism.
>>1017649 Yeah I honestly don't get how the new vidya is so popular. At least with COD you had to shoot at people, instead of engaging with a bunch of retards who will vote kick you for meme reasons.
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>>1017586 >Isn't Among Us a game you have to pay for? No, only if you want a pet/skin/hat. It's a free game >I don't buy flash games And you shouldn't have to pay to play
>175k people watching aoc and climbing god damn, people really like her.
>>1017720 Milkies
>>1017709 BAttlefield 4>COD (any COD) Damn, I love to fly sukhoils and shit over Abrahams.
>>1017717 >Impostor. THE GREEN THE GREEN >THE FUCKING GREEN >GAAAAH
>>1017732 >Green gets purged >Game still running what do?
>>1017732 <dude I saw green vent, he fucking vented >no I didn't
>>1017709 among us is just another take on Mafia or any of those games that are more party games than about mechanics. They're fun with friends because they involve a lot of sociability and not so much with strangers who will just call everyone uighurs
>>1017737 >>Green gets purged >>Game still running >what do? Report bug
>>1017687 lmao shut the fuck up faggot
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Do people only like AOC cause she's young and kinda cute? I have never listened to her talk before now and she's just kinda talking standard Dem shit. Oh shit she said we can tell the Dem party "they have to do better" .... by voting for some Biden via some Dem offshoot party in NY.
>>1017749 >simping for AOC. Aw man, why such low self-esteem?
>>1017754 >Do people only like AOC cause she's young and kinda cute? yes
>>1017754 People liked her because she successfully primaried a Democratic hack and they hoped she would be a fresh start for the party. The party consumed her instead though.
>>1017776 I mean what was she supposed to do though? That's electoralism.
>>1017776 >The party consumed her instead though. The chicken and the roach
>>1017756 Glad you've realized your post was retarded, the only thing that can explain such an irrelevant response.
>>1017754 Yes, except that she actually presented herself as a Bernie Democrat initially. In the past year I'd say her novelty has declined, as she has made several big blunders for her anti-establishment brand. Primarily, she has lent herself to the human rights/democracy blob strategy of mobilizing public opinion against foreign governments, as well as generally supplicated to the party establishment in the Democrat's electoral strategies.
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>>1017774 https://youtu.be/L1vRFPc6q_M Imagine getting excited about bourgise democracy because of some SIMP shit
>>1017787 Admittedly, Bernie's brand has declined too.
10% of the entire population is tuning into this someone hack the stream and play cockshott
>>1017791 If he was actually anti establishment, his novelty would have grown. But this is why you never trust the rose, never trust a SucDem
>>1017796 Gotta wear a barrel for clothes and old woolen socks on muh feet to be considered a true prole.
>>1017784 Except you haven't proposed nothing better of what I said on those posts. Keep simping.
>>1017796 Hi, /pet/
>>1017800 sidenote "where did that bring you, back to me" posting unironically turned me into an ML
>>1017796 You subhuman baboon. You literal dog. How dare you speak, you sickly pale monkey. How dare you open your thin lipped, rim encrusted, menthol cigarette smelling mouth? You are human trash, wh*Toid. Universally despised, derided and mocked. Your species and skin tone offers no hope to the world that Europe can ever prosper. Crawl back in to the frozen tundra you came out of, you literal chimp. I hope you decide to sail your grandfathers skip to the Bosphorus and rape some sheep, as is in the wh*Tes nature. It would still be the only pussy you ever had. Give Mehmet and Mustafa a chance for some target practice, your sole use to the world. wh*Tes obsession with Istanbul is hilarious but sad. Coincidentally its the only worthwhile contribution wh*Tes have made to the medical field. The MUH CONSTANTINOPLE sentiment in the average wh*Te dog is both an early warning sign of autism in children, and early on set Alzheimer's in adults. Take your wh*Te hairy fingers off your keyboard, and never talk about the human species again, you mockery of our supposed shared ancestor.. No amount of semen slabbed on your face every morning will make you BLACK. It's about as delusional of an idea as your daydreams of AFRICAN heritage. You wh*Toid. You make a dumpster look like a beacon of civilisation. You are the blight of the world. Go rot beneath the Earth's surface you and your families corpses, its the best you can hope for in life. For the first time in your life, wh*Toid, you have a job making an object vastly superior to yourself. A dildo. Coincidentally, it would be the first time a wh*Te "man" satisfied a woman. Die, wh*Toid. No one would miss you. Except for eunuchs, who now would have no one to make them look good.
>>1017803 >I highly doubt that workers spend time on twitch, even in the U.S. >No, your white collar worker that can work 6 to 8 hours daily, with free weekends don't count. They are against socialism, anyway. >I am talking those working 10 to 12 hours 7 days a week, insulated within a production chain. Those. Imagine being such a dumb faggot you write this.
obviously her
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aoc is the imposter
AOC should play Dead or Alive beach volleyball instead.
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>>1017819 Let me solve this, then: Are you a worker that works 10 to 12 hours per day 7 days a week, insulated within a factory without no external communication while working, and you are you able to watch twitch and you felt offended?
>twitch chat isn't immediately flooded by rightoid teenagers i can't believe that i actually am hopeful from this. do fascists have their own streaming services now?
>>1017834 dlive and bitwave
>>1017831 I know you don't work 70 hours a week because if you did you would be putting your furfaggot ass to bed right now instead of spending your time writing dumb third worldist shit on the internet.
>>1017828 >the Democrat is sabotaging the collective effort Shocking
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>>1017830 >ALL MY FAVORITE LEFTIST FEMALE CELEBRITEIS AS DEAD OR ALIVE BEACH VOLLEYBALL CHARACTERS MOD WHEN!!!!!!?????
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>>1017837 I never implied I work 70 hours, you illiterate.
>>1017846 >"leftist"
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>>1017846 >LEFTIST >AOC Anon, I...
>>1017849 So you're just another whiny faggot, looking for excuses to be a whiny faggot. You don't even reach the criteria for your own whining.
>>1017717 SOCIALISM There is 1 imposter amongst us. And Hitlers in there somewhere would have been more funny
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>>1017846 Allow me to show you what a true leftist woman looks like
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>>1017869 Since when I need to work 70 hours a week to know that worker with 70 hours per week don't spend time on twitch? Like, I don't have friends who work with those conditions and I can't tell how they spend their time. >protip is it not in twitch but sleeping, eating, and doing home chores. >keep simping.
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>>1017874 Wrong on all accounts, and if you want it then make your own
>>1017882 Can you stop with the fucking avatarfagging already?
Remember when these libs literally spent the last 6 months gaslighting themselves and other people into thinking Biden was going to be some sort of stepping stone to the democratic socialism / Anarcho-Market-Socialist-Vaushite revolution and that Bernie, AOC and all these other no name SocDems were going to be like the "gang of four" "pulling Bidens policy to the left!" Gonna be pretty funny if / when Biden wins and he immediately puts trumps SC pick on the court because of decorum or whatever the fuck and puts Mitt Romney and Lindsay graham on the cabinet
>>1017894 They didn't care when Obama filled his cabinet with wall street. They'll just come up with some kind of excuse no matter what. Just like MAGAts excuse anything Trump does.
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was watching AOC's stream and then I realized I don't give a fuck about some midwit succdem playing a flashgame. Instead I read a book, I suggest you all do the same.
>>1017894 I mean, they don't need to do that. They've been absorbing neocons.
>Their literally letting her win as not to hurt her fucking feefees and to make her out to be an epic pro gamer, This person who has obviously not played this game once in their life.
Been watching Louis Theroux on his past work, ad he directly compares Trump to this Vagas Telemarketer "GET RICH THROUGH YOUR SPIRIT" guys and man it lines up so fuckinng much. This cult of wealth, hyperindividualism, the rhetoric style, the idea of saying "if you can't even chant my shit you aren't worth it", and the fact that Trump appeals to the EXACT same demographic of this petit-bourgeois, almost succeeding almost failing group. As a leader, he just fits the paradigm so well.
>>1017904 >Instead I read a book in 20 minutes? liar. we all know you went to jack off
>>1017915 >He doesn't blow loads after reading each chapter of Das Kapital.
>>1017915 *am reading
>>1017915 If your a fast reader you can literally skim the gist of the manifesto in like half an hour
>>1017907 They made her lose the first game? I turned off after tbft
Please forgive my outbursts leftypol, I have autism and schizophrenia and I get overstimulated easily.
>>1017956 > he still thinks we care about voting
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>>1017981 we'll put you in a nice quiet pit then
>>1017956 >fascists crying about being dissidents that get beaten in the streets for expressing their opinions you realize this is a good thing right
>>1017426 This looks like a job for me, the fag who keeps talking about reactionarism as pathology. No, you're not the only one nor misinformed. They really are like this, and have been all along. If once they seemed to have a rationale for something or, wonder of wonders, an ethical code, these were as ransient as any other belief of theirs, always conditional on whether it reinforces their actual "ideas", which emerge from intuition, not logic. They are fundamentally irrational, and Trump happens to be one of the occasional historical opportunities they have to collectively engage in collectively letting go of this pesky thing called abstract thought. They yearn for action without preceeding thought, like animals do and humans did before behavioral modernity, because things like civilization and morality limit that primeval freedom. That's why they inevitably always cast themselves as victims, no matter how much they have to distort the facts, which in any case they do just to fool us. They just plain don't care about facts, and I mean that in its full sense. We simply cannot allow reactionarism to be an acceptable thing, as they have made patently clear that, in this day and age, they are a threat to the entire damn biosphere. Management of this pathology will need to be a deliberate task of future societies.
>>1016892 i feel this, though i'm still not voting. it just doesn't matter. since it doesn't matter if people vote i'm not gonna be mad at them for voting
>>1017641 Trump is barely able to grab his own mushroom dick. You're looking at this out of order. Trump isn't the Führer, he's the Reichstag fire.
>>1017994 >for nature unless you're an ecofascist this is blatantly false kek
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>>1017745 I wonder if someone ever made a "family tree" of that subgenre. Trouble in Terrorist Town, Salem and lots more. Since they all follow a solid template with small tweaks, comparing how each tweak affect the gameplay would be interesting.
>>1018052 TTT suffers from being absolutely boring unless you're traitor or a detective since you're basically cannon fodder to some guy with an AWP
>>1017754 >>1017774 >>1017776 >>1017787 I would like to raise what I think is a vital point: in the age of mass media, people are famous for being famous. You just need a hook to start the cycle, then you're set. Look at the legions of cretins who won't stop saying dumb shit or do horrible things yet seem to retain enough of a following from which they can live off forever. It's almost impossible for someone to be laughed out of the internet anymore, because everyone pointing at you and laughing acts as that hook. It will get you enough of an audience to keep going. Ubiquituous internet has allowed this phenomenon to reach this state. The root cause is something for anthropologists to figure out, but technology was a fundamental factor for this current scenario.
Do you think that the current "October surprise" that the GOP is choosing to run with (This laptop that they claim proves Biden and his son are both corrupt and his son a [REDACTED]) actually has a shot of changing the election considering early voting has already begun? Also whats you guy's opinion on facebook, Twitter etc just openly showing their hand and saying "We will not let things that may hurt Biden election chances go viral" Like honestly the media reaction and so on is making me think it may actually be real tbh.
>>1017791 Bernie's brand is over. The DNC, remember? They won't let him ever do anything outside of the narrow scope of bipartisan dog-and-pony-show.
>>1018038 What I mean when I bring up nature is how your perceptions of it are bound to change and affect it. To paraphrase nixonist, you identify with nature because of global warming BS painting it as being the oppressed downtrodden masses being terrorized by man, who are portrayed as toltiarian fascist pigs upholding the "outdated" hierarchy.
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>>1017828 Truly the universe has an ironic sense of humor.
>>1018082 I am anti-free speech and support rightoids being forcibly shut up, but I am still against this because under the current neoliberal system it will be turned against us.
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>>1017754 AOC suffers from Mad Congress Disease, a condition where even the most progressive of burning hearts are dulled by the power of lobbying and corporate interests within the party, she's starting to be seen as friendly to Pelosi by the media It's why a revolution will never start from top to bottom in the US like you tankies beg to happen, rather the otherway around. Influence local politics for big party organizations don't give two shits of the local/state level
>>1018109 Go outside once in a while bro, I can't understand this buzzword drivel
>>1018128 The ideology that creates incel mass murderers can't call others dysgenic.
>>1018128 >"Having two sexes? Fascist. Inequality in survival and reproduction? Fascist. Pain and predation? Fascist. No one claims this. Not even liberals. Your schizophrenic get help
>>1018109 >>1018128 >This guy is quoting his faggy twitter follows like they're scholars.
>>1018036 Cucker Tarlson had an opening monologue to this effect a couple years ago where he claimed that Trump want the fire but it's rather the smoke detector for the crises of capitalism. Real stopped clock energy but still accurate
>>1017885 Ilsan Omar is there too? >>1017894 I confess I don't remember anything of the sort. All I recall is them gaslighting themselves and everyone else to vote Biden because TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP. I haven't seen a living soul even remotely associate Biden with democratic socialism or anarchism or such. Well, save for reactionaries, but they have no soul. Right now, the DNC wants those terms to be completely expunged from media, to complement them crushing any hope of a leftwards drift this year.
>>1018128 what zero pussy does to a mf
>>1018143 The GOP equating Biden with communism just blows away the entire electability argument with respect to him vs Sanders.
>>1017912 >As a leader, he just fits the paradigm so well. Not just as a leader, but as a person. He honestly is so dimwitted as to have hardly something which can be called a personality, and what passes for his personality is the default fuck-you-got-mine amoral zeitgeist.
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>>1018136 >"No one claims this", said the individual whose ideology kvetching that poor people being oppressed 24/7 when they receive government handouts for being poor and are conventily able to afford iPhones
>>1018082 I think for at least some it backfired, theyre like muh emails again really? Fake News!
>>1018179 You sound like an anti-semetic stereotype that came to life
>>1018140 Apparently twitter is theory for rightoids
>>1018109 id like to respond to this but it's just schizo drivel
>>1018062 I agree, and that exactly the sort of thing this genealogy of the subgenre would compare. It was a very early entry, before the introduction of the mechanic of having all players perform tasks. I find it interesting to, for example, compare how this one tweak came to become a core part of the subgenre while other tweaks e.g. the role of detective haven't. Vidya requires actual study. >>1018141 I don't know how smart he is, but he's clearly aware of the game in the same sense we are. He knows reactionarism is a farse and how the reactionary average joes are prey to him and his ilk.
>>1018219 If Tucker Carlson wasnt rich he would be a socialist
>>1018179 It's low-key amazing that you can spend hours here on a given night punching out at spooks while willfully ignoring the many (you)s that contradict your ill conceived twitterati ideas of who you're talking at >muh transhumanism <a fringe topic for any reasonable person >but muh iphones <and yet you have shelter and food and luxuries how curious >but muh cancel culture <as though red baiting and cointelpro haven't been an important fixture of the state for a century Like for real, the American conservative movement has controlled all three branches of American government in some capacity for at least 18 or of the last 20 years and somehow it's our fault that you can't get your dick wet?
A lot of people around me that have been contemplating more radical political positions are suddenly starting to slip into faceless liberalism with it being so close to the election. The biggest point is that too much is at stake with the lgbt community and how Biden would be better. How do you counteract libs' claims of this?
SLobby job leftist goyim
>>1018229 it has to be some form of masochistic humiliation fetish for him
>>1018235 >How do you counteract libs' claims of this? You don't. They have a desire to see Trump out on his ass that's mostly driven by emotion and this close to the election it's at the point of no return. Your points to the contrary are just going to seem like you cutting at them. Wait until the status quo of the next four years reveals itself to more of the same rot and rebuild them from there.
>>1018235 biden is objectively better for the left in the usa outside of pure accelerationism
>>1018226 He’d be on /pol/ and have a YouTube channel where he has schizo rants about the ((them))
>>1018229 >the American conservative movement has controlled all three branches of American government in some capacity for at least 18 or of the last 20 years >implying American conservatives have conserved anything
>>1018242 >implying he doesnt browse /pol/ already
>>1018245 conservatism is the biggest grift ever. paleocons are the only people who see through the façade and pretty much just want full blown fascism
>>1018239 Real talk as a member of an established and somewhat influential labor union the make up of the eeoc, nlrb and osha have material consequences for my brothers and sisters hence why I have an imperative to voot. Not mad at people who won't
>>1018235 There is no point in convincing them to not vote Biden. I don’t think anything can definitely be gained by actively promoting abstention, I only defend my choice not to vote and berate people who are trying to force others to vote. If you try to tell people not to vote you’ll probably just seem like a weirdo to them.
>>1018245 The only thing you've conserved is your virginity
>>1018270 yes. the strongest point is the enthusiasm gap. even though people when polled say they will vote for biden, those people stay home. trump voters are fanatics. Trump will win
>>1018278 >enthusiasm gap Reminder that there were more voters in some of the Republican primaries than Democrat primaries this year.
>>1018245 You know how you think that leftists are silver-tongued schemers who attract people with nice promises only to take advantage of them? Yeah, that's what the right does. They're inherently elitist and thus cannot have popular appeal by being sincere. Any rightwing collective action is inherently predatory. But anyway, let's assume both sides work this same way. Let's see how the leftwing schemers in the USSR lived in comparison to the common man. Whereas the latter had guaranteed housing, it was often 1 bedroom, probably 2 for married couples, and his job, likely in industry and thus fairly strenuous, was also guaranteed, as was a dignified pay, vacation and other benefits. The party bigwigs, whose jobs obviously were quite mild, had lavish apartments with 3 or 4 bedrooms. Now let's look at America. The average joe has rights to neither housing nor jobs, and at this critical moment, there are at least 29m unemployed people and possibly almost twice that number, and about 40m people at at risk of homelessness. Their rulers, meanwhile, can own entire islands. Compared to the many, many of their countrymen who own nothing, they are better off by an infinite factor. Literally infinite, as divinding an island, or any property for that matter, by zero approaches infinity. The Soviet bigwig's apartment being 3 or 4 times a sbig as the prole's doesn't sound like much of a gap now. Well okay, I'll be fair here and help out your side of the equation and point out we're dealing with area here, so the bigwig's apartment would actually be 9 to 16 times bigger than the proles. Well, still not much compared to literally infinity. Oh, might as well point out the Soviet citizen had full access to healthcare guaranteed, another right Americans still don't have. Conclusion: even if existing socialism had been a scam, it would still be incomparably more humane than capitalism regardless of whether the latter is a scam or not. (posted again to correct that it's 40m people, not households, at risk of homelessness)
>>1018284 The Democrats have to know that turnout is going to be embarrassingly low. They must have known that when they handed Biden the nomination. I think it is clear that they are not playing to win.
>>1018300 I also expected turnout to reach a new low, but so far, new high records for early voting are being set. We won't be able to tell if the total number of voters has increased for this election, but I have a feeling that Trump's increasingly radical statements -- partly because of the apparent hypomania that the corona treatment seems to have caused -- have convinced the disheartened public to voot against him.
>>1018297 mucho texto >>1018269 <*soyvoice* AND SO I TOLD HIM "THE ONLY THING YOU CONSERVED IS YOUR VIRGINITY" AND IT WAS SO FUCKING FUNNY AND COOL AND EPIC AND >Get out of my house before I call the cops.
>>1018334 >mucho texto <i can't read
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>>1018297 >they are better off by an infinite factor. Literally infinite, as divinding an island, or any property for that matter, by zero approaches infinity. this is so dumb
>>1018321 Corona-chan has been Biden's most influencial supporter, for sure. Trump fucked that shit up so badly, that it has given people one of the few legitimate reasons to want him ousted. Will it be enough to drive people to the ballot box? It will be entertaining to find out.
>>1018334 aren't you a grown ass man who still watches cartoons and whine about their faggotry or some bullshit? you're the true definition of soy
>>1018357 not even him but anime is better than any am*rican bourgeoise """shows""" and """movies""" or n!gger talk shows
>>1018374 >"""movies""" cringe
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>>1018374 most anime is shitty lolicon bait or ecchi. theres no way any of that is better than the sopranos
>>1018297 Let’s be real: Capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than socialism ever has. The only reason the Europoors are able to afford public healthcare is because the US gargantuan military protects them, meaning they cheap out on the army. You can be a pro-capitalist leftist.
>>1018401 silence succdem
>>1018374 wow, I didn't know Hajimete no Gal is more innovative and profund than Momento.... retard
>>1018405 tbf momento is a pretty fun choice for this comparison
>>1018403 What have Us commies and antifa shitheads accomplished besides making the general public hate the Dems? The radicals caused Trump to be elected, and the moderates who let themselves be dragged down the path of “let’s accept everything and pretend everyone is equal” are to blame. The far left needs to be fucking purged, at least the stormcucks are smart enough to stay out of the limelight as they drag the Overton window back toward them.
>>1018334 >I can’t read
>>1018410 >hate the Dems? do you legitimately believe that communists and anarchists give a shit about the public perception of a monolithic neoliberal institution >>1018410 >The radicals caused Trump to be elected good he's done far more to destabilize the neoliberal world order than any dem president since the 60s
>>1018401 > Let’s be real: Capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than socialism ever has. Why conflate technology with capitalism though?
>>1018410 the dems can get yelled at by bunch of right-wing retards for all i care.
>>1018300 ironically dnc cucked themselves making a defeatist platform of 'we have to beat trump' - the slave morality is fucking real
>>1018422 You should care. Bernie was used to vacuum money out of the pockets of gullible children, promising revolution. There will never be a real communist revolution in the US. You even try, and you’ll literally cause the modern equivalent of the fall of Weimar Germany, see: Reichstag Fire. Watch what happens with this election. /leftypol/ is so far up its own ass it can’t even imagine Trump winning without it being some kind of fluke because they’re too busy LARPing as Red Guards.
>>1018239 im riden with tendential rate of profit loss
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>>1018429 I NEED ANOTHER STIMMIE BABY
>>1018239 Biden is a globalist fuck who won’t solve anything. Trump is the accelerationist candidate and thus the one deserving of a vote.
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>>1018374 >not even him but anime is better than any am*rican bourgeoise """shows""" and """movies""" or n!gger talk shows
>>1018429 >You should care. <proceeds to explain why electoral politics are a failure at the national level do you hear yourself?
>>1018436 far right insurrection if trump loses is also pretty /acc/ anon
>>1018436 >lol just vote for the fascist ok this also isn't correct
>>1018352 >>1018413 he can't breed either
>>1018429 >You even try, and you’ll literally cause the modern equivalent of the fall of Weimar Germany, see: Reichstag Fire. Reminder: Trump isn't Hitler. He's been president for 4 years, and most of he most fascist stuff has been stricken down by the legal system. Even if the US transitions into a dictatorship, it's gonna be a whole lot more like Erdogan or Putin than it's gonna be like Hitler. In real terms, nothing is gonna change, it's just gonna be a whole lot more clear that the people doesn't really have any power over the executive branch. Like, I want you to realistically explain what you think is gonna happen if Trump wins, and why it hasn't happened within the last 4 years and why it has happened now
>>1018405 do you drink soylent while watching your movie too? my favorite flavor is the chocolate one. have an upvote and some gold fellow stranger
>>1018429 you seem to miss the point, vaush faggot. no one gives a shit about MURIC LARPing as a democracy. While I'm earning my money to survive comfortably, you retards can get shanked by a Q-tard for all I care.
>>1018442 >le blumpfh >fascist "fascism" is a lib spook at this point.
>>1018438 When’s the revolution comrade? Oh wait, never! Fucking pussies. >>1018439 No thanks, I’d rather not get strung up. They don’t fuck around like the wannabe red guard here. >>1018442 Things have to get worse if you want the situation to accelerate, don’t you get it? Do you see the growth of radicals under Trump? We need MORE of it.
>>1018410 >What have Us commies and antifa shitheads accomplished besides making the general public hate the Dems? Do you have any statistical data that indicates this to be true or to you just assume this based on what you think ought be the truth?
>>1018449 > Things have to get worse if you want the situation to accelerate Common misconception anon, acc is more the human is shit and antiquated politics of spreading solidarity and revolutionary fever are a thing of the past. the only game in town is techno capital as the supreme world making AI
>>1018401 >You can be a pro-capitalist leftist. Bro, you just posted cringe.
>>1018444 >Trump wins >freedom fighters like antifa grow >armed resistance happens >eventually take over country and execute the chuds We already are fighting them in the streets while you hide behind your monitor, libcuck.
>>1018449 >Things have to get worse if you want the situation to accelerate common mistake, clear you haven't read any accelerationist lit. don't worry anon i understand, land's writing looks schizophrenic and retarded, but im sure you can read if you apply yourself!
>>1018401 >You can be a pro-capitalist leftist. Either a C4SSfaggot, or a succdem. Glows hard either way.
>>1018445 i like to drink my chocolate soylent while watching a movie and pulling out your mom's buttplug.
>>1018456 >>freedom fighters This term is poisoned by now, fren. See Reagan and the mujahedeens.
>>1018456 Watch out folks, we have a badass over here!
>>1018458 Ok /pol/tard. When are the mods going to put you up against the wall?
>>1018459 wasn't there a hit piece on c4ss recently that they are a lot of the contributors are pedos or nazis or some shit lol
>>1018464 What are you doing to fight the fascists, reactionary piece of shit?
>>1018401 >akshually
>>1018454 >muh AI will solve everything We’re past that. We are LITERALLY living under a fascist regime, you need to get out and FIGHT them everywhere or we won’t SURVIVE. Don’t you understand what will happen to trans people if he wins?
>>1018468 dunno but wouldn't surprise me, it's literally crypto-ancap, rothbardian strategy of denying the left its established vocabulary(libertarian, anarchism, and now left) and eradicating marxism.
>>1018452 > statistical data > reddit
>>1018472 Shut up LARPie.
>>1018481 I was at Charlottesville bro, bashed the fash while you were jerking off to cuck porn.
>>1018401 >Let’s be real: Capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than socialism ever has. 100 million people starve to death every 7th year under capitalism. How many do you think starved before it? Do you think that's simply how it has always been?
>>1018467 >/pol/tard lol read accelerationist theory before posting about accelerationism, is that hard
>>1018486 >muh theory! FUCK YOUR THEORY. Books are WORTHLESS if you never get to IMPLEMENT THEM. It’s about POWER. Don’t you bootlickers understand that yet?
>>1018401 who cares if capitalism has lifted people out of poverty? i don't just want poverty lifted, i want abolition of class society, i want alienation as a result of class society to end. ending poverty or homelessness isn't enough, we must wholly abolish class society and wage labor
>>1018487 Power for it's own sake is.. Well, it's fascism anon.
>>1018478 literally none of my trans friends are voting and think its cringe >muh AI will solve everything i see you cant read as well - the core of acc is that humans are worthless and cant change shit - if youre a marxist youll see this eventually culminating in communism because of capitalism not because humans thinks its 'immoral' or some cringe
>>1018485 Anon, it‘s thanks to capitalism that we barely even notice said people starving to death because it has allowed for the explosive growth of the population. Please take a statistics course.
>>1018485 >100 million people starve to death every 7th year under capitalism. Not that guy but requesting source, please.
>>1018489 t. Nietzsche's last man
>>1018491 So it's okay that 100 million people starve to death as long as people also breed faster? That doesn't sound very leftist. That sounds like a nightmarish thing to support.
>>1018489 There are two positions: under the boot, or the boot. Which do you want to be, cowardly piece of shit? >>1018490 How many fash skulls have you caved in? None? Out theory will be implemented because we have guns, libcuck. Don’t forget that.
>>1018488 samefag but this is more or less why i didn't become a dengist btw. like, yes china has helped people while utilizing capitalism, and that's great for everyone that benefits but the reality is that this does nothing about the innately exploitative and alienating aspects of capitalism. i want COMMUNISM
>>1018487 >FUCK YOUR THEORY. <I can't read
>>1018498 the LARP is strong, do you also post memes of guillotines on social media anon
>>1018478 this has to be a false flag lol nothing happened to trans people under the past 4 years of trump and all the transhumanists i know are anti voting.
>>1018496 What’s the % of people starving compared to ancient times?
>>1018401 capitalism has lifted nobody out of poverty, it creates it socialism has lifted millions out of poverty in all the exploited nations that suffered from imperialist exploitation the little socdem concessions capitalism has given were at the threat of communist revolution, which was real in europe and all over the world while the US imperialists never had to concede jack shit where they directly went in simply just murdering off opposition there is no military threat to europe
>>1018498 >There are two positions: under the boot, or the boot. ahahaha as if you'd be anything other than smear on a wall, cringe retard
>>1018484 kek, why the lies?
>>1018503 Very likely much much higher. Famine and malnutrition wasn't very common in ancient times, especially not on a systematic level. Indeed all the greatest famines in history has almost universally happened after the 18th century.
>>1018503 I hate the capitalism is moral / immoral arguments but for the love of god STOP CONFLATING TECHNOLOGY WITH CAPITALISM - TECHNOLOGY LIFTS PEOPLE OUT OF POVERTY / STARVATION
>>1018499 Move to China, the US is lost. >>1018501 >l-LARPer Bro you’re ok with fucking race soldiers murdering innocent black people, we NEED a revolution. Are you with us or against us? >>1018502 Nothing happened? How many trans people killed themselves because of Drumf’s policies, you transphobic piece of shit?
>>1018510 can i get free healthcare in china as a foreigner lol if i can then i might actually do it one day
>>1018510 this is such peek crypto fash lib shit i cant even respond. fuck off.
>>1018510 transhumanists having hysterical meltdowns over nothing isn't trump's fault
>>1018510 >How many trans people killed themselves because of Drumf’s policies, you transphobic piece of shit? What policies would that be, exactly? Most of the stuff Trump wanted to pass what stricken down in court? So much for fascism...
>>1018513 it's 100% bait
>>1018516 TRANS LIVES MATTER TRANS LIVES MATTER TRANS LIVES MATTER SAY IT >>1018513 Cowards like you will be in the ditches with the fascists.
>>1018510 what "rights" do trans people not possess that the entire rest of the working class also don't?
>>1018510 >>1018512 >>1018513 >>1018516 >>1018517 this is a fucking obvious false flag please stop responding it's embarrassing
>>1018523 shut up cute girl or false flagger either way youre retarded >>1018524 this, the only one i can think of is that its actually kinda hard to get people charged for hate crimes against cute girls
>>1018527 FUCK THESE WORD FILTERS REEE LET ME BE A LITTLE TRANSPHOBIC
>>1018526 That's why we should have unique IDs.
>>1018510 Vaush go to bed
>>1018524 replying to the bait even though i shouldn't trans treatment within the justice system is especially bad, as far as placing trans women in all male prisons and letting them be raped without moving them obviously this is a systemic problem with jails but it is one example where transhumanists get /worse/ treatment
>>1018523 Imagine thinking says 'TLM' like a sperg online does anything to actually reduce hate crimes
>>1018529 what's cute girls filtering?
>>1018526 >I-it’s a false flag! Someone with a spine shows up and you call it a false flag? No wonder you get pushed around all the time, pussy. >>1018532 TRANS LIVES MATTER WHY CAN’T THEY JUST SAY IT?
>>1018535 cringe
>>1018534 tr00n
>>1018532 I feel like this is just a distraction. The problem is not trans treatment in prison, or black treatment in prison, but rather the entire structure and ideology of the prison itself.
>>1018536 TRANS LIVES MATTER TRANS LIVES MATTER TRANS LIVES MATTER TRANS HATE HAS NO PLACE HERE
closeted self hating trans/pol/
>>1018532 as a female i dont want biological males or anyone with a fucking penis near me in an all-female space lmao. they shouldn't be with all men in prisons either but they shouldnt be allowed in an all female prison. fuck prisons but they need to be on their own separated from cis males and females
>>1018532 the transhumanists have robot arms, and neural implants, they'll be fine dealing with some dime store jailbirds. gender nonconforming on the other hand...
>>1018543 > as a womyn kys
>>1018455 >>1018449 >>1018449 >>1018449 >>1018481 >>1018510 >>1018510 I think your heart’s in the right place, even though a couple of things you said are kinda libshitty. But “Drumf” is cringe, for the love of god.
jealous tr4nnies itt
>>1018543 just ignore the radlib screeching my based lady.
>>1018541 it's a distraction in the same way raising taxes on billionaires is a distraction. while it's certainly a liberal stance to take, since the systemic problems are far worse, it's still worth approaching at a micro scale
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>>1018543 Gz, this is your new cellmate. He has a vagina.
>>1018551 simp >>1018543 abolish prisons and yes, trans people literally just want prisons abolished, not to be necessarily placed in all female prisons what do you want done with trans men? i assume you'd agree that placing them in all male prisons would be egregious right?
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>>1018543 gz. this is your new cellmate
>>1018533 She’s not gonna fuck you over the Internet bro, why white knighting?
>>1018550 You're arguing with a /pol/tard.
>>1017800 >>leftist memes
>>1018559 Fuck off chud, this thread is full of /pol/tards because mods aren’t doing their fucking jobs.
STFU about trans, last warning.
>>1018563 TRANS LIVES MATTER KILL ALL TERFS
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>>1018543 I mean if you’re worried about getting assaulted in prison, anon, that’s valid, but do you think that the genitals of the person there (pre or post op or whatever) will affect their likelihood of them assaulting someone?
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>>1018567 Enjoy your ban. >>1018565 Thank you, it was obvious.
>>1018493 The World Health Organization claims about 13 million die every year due to preventable causes (ie. poverty) in the third world https://www.who.int/en/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/the-top-10-causes-of-death
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>/USApol/ devolves into transhumanist discourse at 1am yet again it's like clockwork
>>1018552 >it's still worth approaching at a micro scale I don't think I can agree with that, not in the american context, the establishment is too far dug in to accept even the mildest reforms or concessions. The best road for socialists is to be unabashedly socialist and push for a genuine, communist alternative.
>>1018574 what mechanism do you propose for adopting a genuine communist alternative
>>1018552 >it's a distraction in the same way raising taxes on billionaires is a distraction. >>1018577 >what mechanism do you propose for adopting a genuine communist alternative By looking past the capitalist system we find ourselves mired in. Rather than pushing for prison reform, we should be pushing to abolish prisons as they are. rather than pushing for taxes on the rich, we should be pushing labour vouchers. We should be unabashedly communist rather than try to beg for liberal scraps within the capitalist framework.
>>1018582 see that's what most of us are, however the bland concessions we've achieved within the capitalist framework have been meager and unacceptable. do you propose /making more people communist/ such that we overpower the state?
>>1018582 i agree but honestly radicalizing the entirety of the US seems nearly impossible even just radicalizing a single average american is hard. i struggle to even push socdems further left. i would love for everyone to be communists. but in the meantime, i don't see anything wrong with fighting to improve people's lives, even if it sometimes means working with lib
>>1018509 Is there a proper term for that concept? I use "technology crawl" but I feel this is the sort of thing which has a better name by some philospher I never heard of.
>>1018582 I think this all sounds fine in theory but the practice of it has been shit look at DSA trying to infiltrate teacher unions with communist supporters - turns out most teachers dont give af and just want a paycheck. any attempt at spreading class consciousness has failed and if there is any merit to communism its in Marx's ideas of capitalist contradiction not the working class. Rioting and breaking shit is fun though and is the closest experience to an anti-capitalist lifestyle if only for a brief moment.
>>1018591 > Rioting and breaking shit is fun though and is the closest experience to an anti-capitalist lifestyle if only for a brief moment. this is what it comes down too, the best burgers can hope for is a mild taste of freedom and the endless drudgery of promoting communism in postreagan burgerland i'd promote dual state methodology similar to hezbollah and Ukrainian nationalists, replacing essential services that the government fails to provide and fostering a sense of trust and positivity towards socialism.
>>1018590 its not so much a philosophical concept than a common fact - love or hate modern farming its heaps better than what we used to have where eating an orange was a special occasion for like celebrating christmas
>>1018429 > he thinks we care if trump wins or loses
>>1018591 >turns out most teachers dont give af and just want a paycheck. I am a teacher. Most teachers I know are red as fuck, because they're directly confronted with poverty and injustice every day of their professional lives.
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>>1018591 >>1018582 the very sad reality is that the US has done everything they could to completely destroy the formation of class consciousness in the country. the last moment of mass rising in class consciousness was in the 1970s with the new left, and with anti-vietnam war protesters mingling so often with communists. we all know what happened with that. ever since then, every attempt at forming a leftist infrastructure in the country has been futile. it will take a while, or some large event or two, to get anywhere near the class consciousness our country used to have, which was never much in the first place.
>>1018600 Maybe you should give DSA a call to head their internal operations then because they fucking suck at it
>>1018600 do you ever meet communist students? i was a baby communist in high school and was really (dangerously) open about being a communist to everyone. i had a teacher who would recommend me weird books and films by communists but he always avoided directly talking politics with me despite doing all of that. would you ever tell a student you were a communist or is that too risky?
>>1018587 > i don't see anything wrong with fighting to improve people's lives, even if it sometimes means working with lib I just see it as weakness at this point. Because in peoples minds, all it does is crystalize capitalist realism. I feel like unless we utterly reject liberal reforms and show that our goal is the absolute abolition of capitalism, all we're doing is showing people that there isn't really an alternative. I think it's utterly self defeating in the long run. Mutual aid and totally abolition of capitalism is what we should be pushing for, accepting reformist crumbs is poison.
>>1018603 I completely agree, but that's because the DSA has COMPLETELY the wrong focuses. like him or not, Bookchin was 100% right that left-wing politics need to be centered around civic virtues and local communities rather than federal electoral politics. Most american lefties I know are way more interested in the Green or at least local orgs affiliated with the greens than they are the DSA or the PSL.
>>1018601 I'm anemic to the idea of more bad - more consciousness short of some mass balkanization (which I hold out for) like you said the last revolutionary fervor was in the 60s where the working class was in a much comfier position. I don't see how some new leftist circlejerk could ever return to that.
>>1018606 >accepting reformist crumbs is poison. it's a question of improving material conditions and illustrating where the line is drawn. take the concessions we are given and show that they are not enough, even the most radical concessions given by the radlibs. there's also something to be said for damage control and improving conditions for the poor while they're being radicalized. i dont think we should make prole lives worse just to radicalize them; capitalism does that on its own
>>1018605 I usually avoid label, because I usually find that putting labels on things just makes the discussion about identity rather than actual beliefs and policies. Sure, I have mentioned stuff like Marx and Bookchin, but even then I usually discuss philosophy without any names attached to it with them. I find that it's much easier to discuss most ideas with students if they believe that you're the author of the ideas you're discussing. Also it just makes it more casual and comfy, as it's more just two people talking and not so much me listing the authors I've read.
>>1018610 eh slightly moving the overton window is such an emotional drain for little gain - it feels like how everyone in this country thinks they are closer to being a millionaire than homeless. Reform has also pretty much failed miserably if you look at DC and the 70s tons of black judges, DAs, cops etc were hired and then they post some of the harshest cop harrassment and drug policies in the country.
>>1018612 By no means would I argue this; I really do think that improving material conditions while generating a dual state system is the best option, since you'll be able to build class conciousness and solidarity in a society that's rigidly opposed to it. i.e. broke 'libertarians' in the boonies will be open to mutual aid programs far more than they'll be open to a proletarian revolution
>>1018597 I care tbh, I think Kamala will be a disaster
>>1018615 honestly the only reason i care is out of the vindication of watching /pol/ and boomers cry for the next 4 years. i don't think kamala's policy decisions will be any better or worse than trumps
Comrades help. What do I say to liberal peers who use the virus as an excuse to vote for Biden? Their reasoning being that, barring all else bad I could say about him, prison industrial complex, political corruption, imperialism, etc; that, his administration would preform better in containing the virus and saving more lives. I get the feeling that these people are on the backfoot anyhow and would have been arguing this shit regardless if the virus had it not happened. Yet, I don't know how to navigate this particular annoyance since they don't fucking read and genuinely can't comprehend how much of a frivolous detraction expending all this effort in electoralism within a capitalist party within an oligarchy is instead of say, building a sidewalk foodbank.
>>1018620 I say I don't vote and its cringe bro
>>1018621 that's as bad as the one word, "VIRUS" in all caps response I got from one of them after posting the article of Biden looking to appoint republicans to his cabinet.
>>1018620 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/us/coronavirus-deaths-estimate.html this is the first result I could find, but I'd recommend pointing out that Biden's response would likely have been as miserable and incompetent as Trumps's, as the conditions of the American health care and american society were simply not adaptive enough for COVID. It's valid to point out that Trump's greatest misstep was validating anti-maskers; outside of this, his "medical response" was pretty much identical to what dem's proposed, outside of the stimulus package fuckery.
>>1018626 what was wrong with the stimmie shit (besides being anemic and not really preventing much of the mass unemployment) I hope if he wins we get more lol
>>1018626 >>1018620 >>1018625 just going to link another set of articles that basically illustrate the same thing; Trump's response was only marginally worse than anything the Dem's would've promoted https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/19/us/politics/trump-coronavirus-outbreak.html https://www.forbes.com/sites/teresaghilarducci/2020/01/31/america-is-not-ready-for-the-coronavirus/#6c49596499f5 https://www.foxnews.com/media/tucker-carlson-america-not-ready-for-cornavirus https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/us-isnt-ready-whats-about-happen/607636/ >>1018629 The stimulus was a failure of both parties, but it does fall on Trump and the GOP that they were incapable of producing a stimulus. I think that, and the anti-mask validation, are really the only 2 things that Trump fumbled severely
>>1018626 Thankyou, that's a good angle. I can hear them already though. "Not validating anti-maskers is worth the completely disproportionate I'm expending being upset about this and urging everyone I know to voot." Is there anything I can say that won't just get shut out by ontological bias to that effect? In other words, that the process itself is a detraction from more substantive political organization given the magnitude of effective difference vooting makes.
>>1018631 Biden and Kamala verbally and directly oppose M4a (succdem example but it's your best angle probably) that would've been the only way to prevent COVID from sweeping the nation as it did. The democratic response to the crisis would've had the same failures, due to their disregard for the healthcare system
>>1018617 I presented my case here: >>1017094
>>1018634 >>1018631 should've continued this in the same post but you should really just push the point of "it's not fucking enough to voot" let them voot for biden, i wouldn't argue that specifically, instead shift the discussion to the fact that their votes will make literally no difference besides validating their disdain. >>1018635 that is a good case, I'd say that hypothetically the DNC is largely going to be unsuccessful in their efforts to homogenize and monopolize neoliberal politics; FOX has done far too good of a job painting the democrats as satanic communists, and that will never be removed from the lumpens' collective conciousness
>>1018637 thanks, I'll roll with it and just keep on keeping on. God I can't wait for the fake electoralism to break like the narrative around police finally did . These people wouldn't have recognized police brutality 2 years ago either.
>>1018637 I suppose Fox News does break liberal monopoly on the media, but it doesn't mean much if there are no Republicans there to benefit from it. Democrats might have staked the party itself with this gambit, yet I can't see Republicans surviving a defeat either. The loser this November will either be the party that used the same tactic which cost them the previous election and lost again to a literal retard, or the party that has absolutely nothing else but a literal retard. How can either of these find life after Trump?
>>1018648 Fukuyamas thesis but its politics end at trump
>>1018637 TBH I think predictions of the dnc being completely business as usual after as big of a momentum shift as Trump finally being defeated are a little short sighted, The political landscape will be so vastly different that it's going to be alien to the strategies they've used for the last 4.
>>1018669 "At the end of history, there is Drumpf" -- Hungry Santa
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the more i hear people say things are/will be different/the same, the more i hear people say things will be/are the same/different or they say one after the other, and then the other again what a marvelous time to be conscious and in possession of a persistent memory
>>1018235 >with the lgbt community and how Biden would be better. How do you counteract libs' claims of this? You don't because they're not wrong. If you or someone you really care about is in that group then that can be enough to win a vote. >but they're exactly the same! Not on this, no. The Dems would throw lgbt under the bus if needed for their strategy, but currently it gets them more money and power than it loses so it's in for the foreseeable future. >but it all boils down to class! Yes yes and the revolution starts any day now... Yes I know you don't care about identity politics. No I didn't vote for Biden.
is there Marxist explanation for why most wh*te americans seem to be better than me? t. mexican american
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>>1018817 Better at what?
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Vooting Simulator
>>1018579 wait what do we have to do with it?
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>>1018829 Amazing
>>1018827 basically everything lmao im being sardonic but as I get older I realize how deep racist spooks run in this shithole, like I know it's largely due to class but sometimes I have doubts
>>1018848 the fact that you're esoteric enough to find a place like bunkerchan means you're probably sharper than most white americans.
Listening to liberals makes me want them to lose to teach them a lesson because they have learned nothing. I only wish a real protest candidate could win who would be funny. If Biden won but Kanye got enough votes to really scare people that would be great, something like that. Of course they would only blame Kanye instead of trying to take a deep look inside at why voters hate their message even though its approved by a large team of "experts".
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bipartisanship 😌😌😌
>>1018284 To be fair the Republicans had no reason to suppress turnout, but the Dems did heavily
>>1018606 I don't really see why an average apolitical person would believe or join up with a leftist org that just yells about revolution and communism and the makeup of a hypothetical future society that compared to the status quo sounds like, let's be real here, a fantasy world. Doing nothing for people immediately and within the current system just makes people see you as either a scam artist or just some weirdo making grandiose promises you can't keep. Nothing about doing what you can actually accomplish means you have to stop railing on flaws in the system.
lmao got this in my youtube recommendations https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5LrQv496Iw >How America could lose its allies | 2020 Election Porky is scared
>>1018810 >they're not wrong Except drumpf hasn't done anything to hurt the lgbtqwerty afaik. The diffrence is purely in messaging, if even that
>>1019018 >How America could lose its imperial strongholds
>>1018485 >How many do you think starved before it? as a % of the total population a lot more people were starving to death before capitalism
>>1019023 He took away trans rights to vaporize Iraqi weddings from 3000km away.
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>>1019251 Hell nah, smoke rocks baby.
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>>1018561 >muh leftist memes too many words
>>1019207 Fucking duh, this is material dialeticalism 101. Capitalism will build the productive forces necessary for worker liberation. Capitalism was an actually good and necessary development to provide the conditions for socialism. Read Marx God damn ~t. anarchist
>>1018912 What a hard decision.
>>1019251 >CIA uighurS SAY CIA uighurS NOT REAL
>>1018912 Top comment on r*ddit for this was “This is how politics should be”.
>>1019438 Bland, uninspiring, unoffending. Every redditor's dream.
>>1018912 porky has provided you the option between a twink and Mr. Cocks. how kind!
>>1018912 wholesome 100 chungus Christ, the one thing I liked about Trump is that he didn't pretend to give a shit about the other side. Politics isn't some gentlemen's club where we politely discuss whom to exploit.
>>1019438 I mean, politicians should work together. But if both offer the same shit, why bother then to vote to begin with.
>>1018912 This is what the Biden administration is going to look like. Get ready to an hiro
>>1019456 >politicians should work together Why?
>>1019478 Because they should all be members of the workers party
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You ready for everybody to tell you to VOOT again in 2024?
>>1019499 I bet everyone reading this is thinking WAOW IM SO READY TO VOTE FOR LE BASED GRIFTER!!!!!!!! seriously what is the RNC planning?
>>1019499 God, another full-time neocon running for president.

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