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Russia in the 90's Anonymous 01/22/2020 (Wed) 09:28:57 No. 225088
I don't know much about it, so how bad did things get in Russia (and the rest of the Soviet states) after the fall of the USSR in 1992?
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>>225091 There's a difference between sarcasm and bait.
Think 40 million people lose their jobs instantly, people's savings evaporate overnight in 1992 then again in 1998, constant mafia wars over "small business", widespread heroin addiction and aids, defunded orphanages lead to millions of kids living in the street, turning Russia and Ukraine into biggest commercial CP producers. An ancap dream.
>>225095 don't forget it made life expectancy even lower then the second world war. The SECOND WORLD WAR.
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>>225088 All is good.
>>225099 he sleeps until his time comes again
I don't have the numbers or graphs saved, but literally everything went to shit. Higher mortality rate, higher rate of unemployment, higher rate of homelessness, lower life expectancy, higher suicide rate, higher rate of alcoholism, higher rate of drug overdose deaths, higher rate of prostitution, etc, etc, etc. The dissolution of the USSR was absolutely a humanitarian catastrophe, but that is almost never acknowledged in the west. Until I became a commie all I had ever been taught was that it was a great win for democracy when the USSR finally "collapsed". (Quotation marks around collapsed since that word is always used in order to imply that the dissolution of the USSR was inevitable and just sort of happened automatically by itself.)
>>225103 I was told that too. From my own experience, the stuff you see now from the super-deprived urban areas of Russia and the Eastern Bloc (Krokodil, Hardbass, Old Soviet tower blocks overgrown and unused) was what I, and I assume most other people, was what Russia has always been like. By the way, has anyone got a direct visual comparison that shows how bad things got?
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>>225103 the graphs of birth rates and mortality in USSR and in RF
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Imagine that you're an average Soviet worker in the 80s. Maybe there are already some shortages, but you have a stable job, the full gamut of social protections and a sense of stability. You have a home, a dacha, two kids growing up. The TV shows wholesome stuff about harvests and the latest scientific achievements. If only you knew how bad things were going to get. Then suddenly overnight the USSR "collapses". You are told to invest your suddenly worthless ruble savings into privatization vouchers. You have no idea how doing business in capitalism works, so you end up investing into a pyramid scheme and losing everything. Your factory gets closed up and its equipment sold to the West because it was "unprofitable" - nothing is anymore except oil, everything that isn't bolted down is getting lifted and sold to the West for a pittance. You end up collecting bottles for a living. Your underage daughter starts skipping school to prostitute herself to support her family, but ends up spending everything on drugs. Your son gets shot in a gang war. The TV is crime reports 24/7 because that's what gets people glued to screens. Sometimes it's charlatans offering to charge your water with positive energy. Sometimes it's your leadership openly licking American boots, talking about how the USSR was evil and totalitarian, and saying how good it is that we're "good friends with the US now". You end up having to rely on subsistence farming on your dacha in order to simply not to starve to death. Your apartment in the city gets taken by the mafia and eventually you just freeze to death on your dacha. That, without exaggeration, was the fate of millions of Russians who didn't "fit into the market". That is a quote by the leading ideologue of privatization, Anatoli Chubays, by the way. "So what if 30 millions or whatever die out? They didn't fit into the market." It was Hell on Earth. It's one of the greatest humanitarian catastrophes and episodes of human suffering in history. I was too young to really comprehend the enormity of horror back then (I was born in 1994) but I just knew something wasn't right. Nothing but Chechnya and crime on the TV. Dad was a smuggler. Mom came home bruised, robbed, possibly raped frequently. Grandma having nervous breakdowns because she was the only family member with a stable job with the state and single-handedly provided for half a dozen people. Everything is filthy, the ground is littered with used heroin syringes, streets are filled with people peddling random goods in makeshift "markets" just to survive. And that was in the latter half of the 90s when everything was slowly getting better due to growing oil prices. The earlier years were 10x as apocalyptic. I remember reading that the demographic and economic devastation caused by the fall of the USSR and privatization rivals that of WW2. Sounds about right to me tbh.
>>225090 t. Pizzaman
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This is comparison how Stalingrad tractor plant looked after Staslingrad battle and how it looks after privatisation
>>225113 This is why when people see shanty towns and heroin-addicted shitholes in Russia and other parts of the former Soviet Union like Belarus and Ukraine, they blame it on the Soviet Union.
>>225115 >when capitalism ruins a city more than the entire wrath of the German army
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>Throughout the entire Yeltsin transition period, flight of capital away from Russia totalled between $1 and $2 billion US every month. Each year from 1989 to 2001 there was a fall of approximately 8% in Russia’s productive assets. Although Russia is largely an urban society, 3 out of every 4 people grow some of their own food in order to be able to survive. Male life expectancy went from 64.2 years in 1989 to 59.8 in 1999. The drop in female life expectancy was less severe from 74.5 to 72.8 years. >The increase from 1990 to 1999 in the percentage of people living on less than $1 a day was greater in the former communist countries (3.7%) than anywhere else in the world. The number of people living in ‘poverty’ in the former Soviet Republics rose from 14 million in 1989 to 147 million even prior to the crash of the rouble in 1998. https://newint.org/features/2004/04/01/facts
>>225113 >The TV shows wholesome stuff >Then suddenly overnight the USSR "collapses" Well, it wasn't that sudden, there was 6 years of anti-communist propaganda on TV prior to that telling you how all the nice things you have are build by "inhuman regime".
There's a fucking reason Yeltsin was such a hated figure in Russian history. He made everyone piss poor.
>>225123 No one had any fucking idea how bad things were going to get. People voted against breaking up the Union, they didn't want privatization, they wanted a reformed USSR with more freedoms. What they got is a Pinochetian Holocaust. That pretty much came out of the blue.
>>225130 This hits hard
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relicts of more civilized society
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>>225138 This is why Pripyat is so upsetting to me. Not only because of the disaster but because its a photo-still of a by-gone era.
(OP) I knew making this thread I was going to be in for some shit, but this is just... so tragic.
>>225147 It was a tragedy anon what did you expect.
>>225113 Source on the Chubays quote? Also the comparison of damage to world war 2. I'm hoping that convincing my lib friends that "freeing" the Soviet Union was a utterly cruel catastrophe will help them rethink the propaganda they've internalized
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>>225155 >how it feels to chew pizza hut
>>225155 Ugg free now, Ugg no need lenin-grug. Ugg kill mammoth for cavelord and get 10 percent of mammoth despite killing mammoth, this okay. Ugg is okay. Ugg is free.
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>>225113 Screen cap'd this post.
>>225113 >>225154 That quote by Chubais is probably fake. Chubais denies he ever said that but here are some other "cool" Chubais quotes: > I am just anti-people http://strana.lenta.ru/russia/chubais.htm >Our society is infantile, they never said thank you to our bussiness https://thebell.io/anatolij-chubajs-obshhestvo-infantilno-ono-ni-razu-ne-skazalo-biznesu-spasibo/ and this is also "epic" https://youtu.be/HejKCWHb4o4 and if you can russian https://youtu.be/u5NR0HjGgYs
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Well, at least they understand the basic economics, amirite?
>>225210 yeah dude, its not like capitalism made them abandoned ammirite
>>225123 No, It was this sudden. No one expected the USSR to collapse, the country had problems and the leadership was open about that. But not even CIA was suspecting that its actually gonna happen
>>225154 >the comparison of damage to world war 2 for the population losses check out the second graph here >>225109
>>225241 also the infant mortality started growing in 90s
>>225090 >lolis Uhhh, what?
>>225255 he means child prostitutes anon
>>225154 >"freeing" It was a "cold/hybrid/soft" fucking W A R.
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>>225255 Read Nabokov.
>>225255 Well, you can't employ child labor if the industry is dead anyway so there's only one way for kids to make money when their orphanage gets defunded.
>>225281 Jesus fucking Christ
The dismantlement of the USSR was so bad that some anti-Soviet dissidents became pro-Soviet
>>225305 Stalin should of been embalmed too. I want to see his glorious moustache in person.
no comment
>>225307 He was embalmed for a while, cornman had to sneak him out of the mausoleum during nighttime.
>>225307 He was. Cornman buried him later.
>>225313 >>225314 fucking scumbag
>>225305 Zinoviev became pro-Stalin already in 70s what's more funny even retards like Solzhenitsyn were opposed to Yeltsin, privatisations and other "reforms" He even refused to accept an award from Yeltsin
>>225316 Apparently one of the justifications for this was that Lenin visited one party member in her dreams and told her that Stalin should be removed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dora_Lazurkina
>>225322 Is Lenin Jesus?
>>225328 He is to me, damnit.
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Come on guys, at least you're now getting the Triple Wow Box, all with cheesy crust!
>>225333 ECONOMIC INSTABILITY
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>>225337 I wonder what the young one thinks of pizza hut now. Maybe he's addicted to heroin.
>>225103 >The dissolution of the USSR was absolutely a humanitarian catastrophe, but that is almost never acknowledged in the west. The Neo-Nazis deny the holocaust, the neo-liberal Free-market people deny this.
>>225377 A few people got obscenely rich and that's all it matters.
>>225377 It's baffling how one can look at what happened with post-Soviet countries and say "this is fine, free speech or whatever was worth it". And yet this view is considered COMMON SENSE to the point where if you even insinuate anything to the contrary you'll be looked at as a crazy extremist. The American propaganda machine is truly beyond Orwellian.
>>225391 To be fair, I don't think any average person (in the USA) knows about any of this.
Prolekult should make a full documentary about this
>>225379 No, no, what happened in 1990's to former Soviet block countries was a predictable, and since they continued advocating the same policies afterwards, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that it was the intended result. This is using structural violence to carry out mass murder. It's different from Nazism but it is no why less anti-human. The motivation is not personal gain it's large scale slaughter. >>225391 They didn't even get free speech they got commercial speech, and luckily the American propaganda machine isn't that effective it only works on un-reflected realities. Consider that they only access the brain-circuit that is responsible for making the noises for belonging to the crowd, those are not believes, they a re linguistic hats that are very interchangeable, if you talk to people in the context that does not demand profession of crowd-noises they will not defend it.
I have a mother who lived through the collapse of the USSR. If you want to ask questions. I can help answer some of them
>>225429 (OP) From the perspective of an average citizen, how fast and how hard did things unravel? Also, does she prefer USSR Socialism to Capitalism?
>>225429 Literally just tell us what the reaction of her neighbourhood was, as soon as it was extremely apparent that the USSR would be over in a few days.
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>>225090 >lolis That was present in Soviet era too, and It was better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFcnRbZSi-M
>>225449 Are you sure about this, the dressing up children in matching uniforms is a strategy to make children appear like they act as a unified group and that signals that they are not as easily to victimize because they make up for their small size by numbers, and additionally it's supposed to make parents act protective not only for their biological children but also the neighbours children.
>>225483 I guess it works, I want to protect all of those children and I don't even fucking know them.
>>225113 God this post makes me so angry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_bias#Subconscious_biases Many countries in Africa, Latin America and Southeast Asia are still worse off in terms of extreme poverty, child labor and sex slavery than 1990s Russia and have been for centuries, but god forbid a European country goes through similar hardship for a decade because its political apparatus gave up on socialism and its citizens became complacent, apolitical, more liberal, and bought into the Hollywood lifestyle from bootlegged media, and then descended into an even stupider ideology of oligarchic Putinist nationalism combined with Orthodox Christianity.
>>225587 >Many countries in Africa, Latin America and Southeast Asia are still worse off in terms of extreme poverty, child labor and sex slavery than 1990s Russia You gotta thank the CIA and the fall of the USSR for that too, fag
>>225587 >Many countries in Africa, Latin America and Southeast Asia are still worse off in terms of extreme poverty, child labor and sex slavery than 1990s Russia and have been for centuries lmao, read something about tsarist Russia, idiot >European country goes through similar hardship for a decade lmao, he thinks it ended >muh huite woman syndrom >muh subconscious biases >>>reddit
>>225587 >Many countries in Africa, Latin America and Southeast Asia are still worse off in terms of extreme poverty, child labor and sex slavery Hey anon, you know what political/economic system made a lot of the countries in those regions better off and effectively reduced or eliminated those kinds of things? You know what happend to those countries when that political/economic system was forcefully removed/repressed by capitalist intervention? Also, >If you discuss the ramifications of a major socialist country going under by showing how it went from a country with none of those things you described to ALL OF THEM, you have a racial bias Fuck off
>>225587 >Many countries in Africa, Latin America and Southeast Asia are still worse off in terms of extreme poverty, child labor and sex slavery than 1990s Russia and have been for centuries The USSR was aiding socialists in those countries who were trying to stop that. With the fall of the USSR that support ended.
>>225592 >>225595 >>225597 >>225598 why are you guys replying to bait
>>225587 Fuck off. USSR wasn't only Russia and Europe. The Central Asian and Caucasian republics were even worse off after the collapse. The pics in this thread were mostly from Moscow. Everywhere else was even worse.
>>225606 >>225606 Thanks to the USSR collapsing there were jihadi theocracies with literal open-air slave markets springing up in muslim republics and brutal autocracies in central Asia. But those aren't the pEoPLe oF cOloR that matter. Only african-americans matter (and africans because they're kind of like african-americans)
>>225333 The fun part is that only Moscow got pizza hut and all other fun consoomer things, the rest of the country got only chaos.
>>225612 Precisely, I'm Russia too, just a bit younger than you, and I've never met a single Russian person who lived in the Soviet period who approved of the fall. There was a guy who tried to kill Chubays, and he was acquitted THREE TIMES by a jury until he was killed.
>>225598 (OP) On that topic, is the absolute desolation you see in Ethiopia now to due with the lack of USSR support in staving off rampant capitalist imperialism?
>>225587 What the fuck is this post
>>225437 As far as she has been telling me. She had to experience a war and flee. She was discriminated because of her ethnic background. The electricity was only on for half the day, they had to rely on food banks from Red Cross. People from the neighbourhood resorted to thievery, (they stole my great-grandpas medal from Stalin even). As for Capitalism vs Socialism. She says she is neither. She means that social democracy or Dengism is the most ideal system.
>>225438 The general consesus is that Gorbachev was a huge sell-out which only cared about himself. She was absolutely shocked when people from Europe idealise him
>>225631 >they had to rely on food banks from Red Cross. In some areas you had to bring your own medications to the hospital.
>>225623 Yes. The USSR was aiding the socialist government against multiple rebel factions ranging from monarchists to Maoists backed by US, West Germany, Somalia, Sudan, China, etc. They were in a decades long civil war since the revolution against the emperor in 1974. In the end the rebels won in 1991, reversed the gains and achievements of the revolution and implemented neoliberalism. Ethiopia is still ruled by the former rebel coalition which promotes some clusterfuck ideology they call "revolutionary democracy" to justify whatever tribalist or neoliberal nonsense they come up with.
>>225587 >A prosperous society being plunged into abject poverty is good because I am bitter about living in abject poverty. The point of communism is to stop abject poverty, not make everyone poor, you absolute memelord. Fuck, large parts of the ussr werent european or white.
This thread is so unbelievably sad, wow...
>>226520 just like russia in the 90's
>>225120 >>225113 USA is next.
It may be idealism but I often think the USSR collapsed at the worst possible time. If it had collapsed a little bit later - maybe 1998 - there would've been some more pragmatic considerations in how to reform. It's not like neoliberals went away, but the circumstances were different to how they were in the early 1990s. In the early 1990s the neoliberal revolution had essentially peaked in the west and was beginning to congeal into a new consensus. For the worst of the revolutionaries this was a problem because they regarded their job as only being half done. They were eager to push even further at a time when the coalition that had brought reform in the first place was beginning to fragment. Then suddenly Russia collapses: A chance to build capitalism from the ground up. So naturally some of the craziest neoliberal revolutionaries get sent to Russia to tell them how to build TRUE capitalism. So you get the utter insanity of shock therapy, the inanity of the advice for Russia to become a petrostate and to privatize everything before educating people in the value of the shares they're going to be given or ensuring that the police force are strong enough to contain corruption and crime. I feel like it really does make a lot of sense to view it through that lens: of revolutionary idealism. Tear away the state and let the market sort it out... Of course there were other material factors (Gorbachev's failed economic reforms, corruption in the former USSR, etc.) and many of these tie in to why Russia failed precisely as it did, but it's hard to imagine it could've been anywhere near as bad if the west had taken a more cautious approach to instructing Russia on the road to transition, suggesting a larger role for the state and running a program of reform with at least some emphasis on humanitarian concerns. (i.e. why not have the state centrally plan the production/distribution of food, while slowly moving factories etc into the market?) I have to emphasize that this is about timing though - it's not that Blair/1996+ Clinton represented a shift in neoliberalism towards a more pragmatic stance, it's about the phases of the neoliberal revolution that they represent. They existed to secure the revolution and prevent a counterrevolution, rather than to deepen and advance it at the same pace as in the 1980s. For that reason I expect you'd see a more cautious approach to Russia, even if it was still ultimately doomed to failure due to the material conditions at hand.
>>226604 This sounds like you are trying to find apologetics for the Neo-liberals fucking over ex-soviet countries, they wanted them to crash and and burn, they still try to peddle these policies to this day.
>>226604 We didn't need foreign experts to fuck shit up, we had our own ideologues drinking Friedman cool aid, watch the video in >>225185
>>225239 David Rockerfeller claims he is responsible for its collapse
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I-I'm sorry your state got fucked, ML-anons. The Soviet people didn't deserve this.
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>>234741 you're next
>>225622 >There was a guy who tried to kill Chubays, and he was acquitted THREE TIMES by a jury until he was killed. based, shame he didn't succeed in killing him
>>236979 there is even song about it by Aleksandr Kharchikov called "Рыжая тварь" but it was deleted from youtube, i think
>Azerbaijan (my.country) War,famine and oligarchy >Armenia War, oligarch, dependence from diaspora, literal trust fund masqurading as a country >Georgia War, civil war, oligarchy and high unemployment >Central Asian countries Famine, oligarvhy, high inequality, slavery, being dependent on Russia and China. >Baltic countries Basically nazi countries. Dependency on EU >Belarus High inequality, oligarchy >Russia War, war, war, oligarchy, famine, dependency on oil, destruction automative industry and etc >Ukraine Worse than any country in fucking Africa >Moldova Do I even need to say?
This thread is good evidence of how capitalism murders people. Why again do self-identified socialists mourn for the poor kulaks and other victims of communism?
>>237357 add in: >Poland catholic shithole, went from being the breadbasket to the bangladesh of europe, total dependency on eu, germany's subcontractor. high inequality, corruption, theft, emigration, threat of war with former soviet countries (including russia) on account of american coaxing and neo-nazi propaganda.
The thread names makes me want to listen to Initial D.
>>237646 Only "socialists" mourning kulaks don't fucking know who kulaks were.
>>239868 that doesn't make any fucking sense
>>241334 It does though.
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>>241334 The self-proclaimed socialists who mourn the deaths of the kulak class in the USSR do not understand what the kulaks actually were.
>>225109 Can somebody please translate this chart and provide me a primary citation for it?
>>225587 >muh race Thanks for confirming my hatred toward radlibs is justified. You privileged piece of shit.
>>239868 >who kulaks were Parasites-usurers first of all.
Read Parenti. >In Russia, doctors and nurses in public clinics are now grossly underpaid. Free health clinics are closing. More than ever, hospitals suffer from unsanitary conditions and shortages of disposable syringes, needles, vaccines, and modern equipment. Many hospitals now have no hot water, some no water at all. 2 The deterioration of immunization programs and health standards has allowed polio to make a serious comeback, along with tuberculosis, cholera, diptheria, dysentery, and sexually transmitted diseases. Drug addiction has risen sharply. "Russia's hospitals are struggling to treat increasing numbers of addicts with decreasing levels of funding" (CNN news report, 2/2/92). (pg 107) >Women also are being recruited in unprecedented numbers for the booming sex industry that caters to foreign and domestic businessmen. Unable to find employment in the professions for which they originally were trained, many highly educated Russian and Eastern European women go abroad to work as prostitutes. Women are not the only ones being channeled into the sex market. As reported in Newsweek (912196): >Prague and Budapest now rival Bangkok and Manila as hubs for the collection of children to serve visiting pedophiles. Last year one investigator was stunned to find stacks of child pornography in the reception rooms of Estonia' a Parliament and its social welfare department. "Free love is regarded as one of the new 'freedoms' which the market economy can offer," she wrote. "Simultaneously, sex in the market economy has also become a profitable commodity." In some cases "children are kidnapped and held like slaves;' says [Thomas] Kattau [a specialist with the Council of Europe] . "This is happening more and more. It is organized crime." (pg 115) >The end result of all this free-market privatization in East Germany is that rents, once 5 percent of one's income, have climbed to as much as two-thirds; likewise the costs of transportation, child care, health care, and higher education have soared beyond the reach of many. (pg 103) >Books of a Marxist or otherwise critical left perspective have been removed from libraries and bookstores. In East Germany,the writers' association reported one instance in which 50,000 tons of books,some of which brand new, were buried in a dump. The German authorities who disposed of the books did not feel free enough to burn them. (pg 113) This is only scratching the surface. Chapters 6 and 7 are full of morbid shit like this.
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>ywn rise up from lowly neighbourhood thug with your boys in late 80s into affluent gangster in mid 90s >ywn shake down a kiosk >ywn assassinate somebody who hasn't paid their debts >ywn bribe the police >ywn be killed by rival gang >ywn be buried in a sick gravestone with you in your best fit standing next to your ride i. can't handle this feel
>>243167 when I was in Russia I always asked myself - Why don't people destroy those memorials to murderers and thugs?
>>243181 Well it's not like those are standing out in the street like Lenin statues or whatever. They're literally gravestones. Vandalizing graveyards is kind of in a bad taste.
>>243181 most of them are guarded or in private cemeteries
>>243185 >Well it's not li Vandalizing graveyards is kind of in a bad taste. spooky
>>243399 You gonna be saying that when a fellow stirnerite buries you alive because they a full grave for their property?
>>225088 it was basically like this https://youtu.be/6unXtio7i30
>>225587 Do everyday Russians identify more with Europe, Asia, or somewhere in between?
>>249457 Europe (and America). The majority identify with the West they either identify and like it or identify with it and dislike it even if you dislike its still what you are butthurt about. Also since the whole situation with the West largely died down because Trump is a friendly comical character who cant really be sold as an enemy Merkel and Macron are also pathetic Ukraine is led by a clown so you cant sell conflict there either so the population is back to hating Putin again because nothing is happening in foreign policy and nobody believes a war with NATO will happen. As a result people are starting to not care about the propaganda and therefore once you stop caring about propaganda you start to drift into hating the government and wanting big changes. Russian internal politics is basically Putin did this Putin did that Putin went there Putin said this Putin appointed him etc. Its all really boring people put up with Putin and the shitty corrupt system while they were fighting the West somehow (largely in the media but still) now they arent doing anything and people want the kinds of political bread and circuses America has. Putin knows this which is why he did what he did recently but I doubt he can remain in power for long 200k people protesting all the time in Moscow a city of 15 million will be enough to cripple the entire system and topple the government they arent gonna shoot at the protestors they are scared and if they do they are definitely fucked anyway.
>>250257 > 200k people protesting all the time in Moscow a city of 15 million will be enough to cripple the entire system and topple the government. Ah yes, petit-bourgeois protests won't bring to the collapse of the entire system, all they can do (and will do) is just change one puppet of capitalists to another.
>>252918 >Ah yes, petit-bourgeois protests won't This isn't something that's controllable. To shore up their own prestige they spent money on a city that's now filled with bourgeois and liberals who hate them. Sad for them. Nobody likes them at least not enough to go out and defend them it's not only liberals and urabnites
>>250257 >Europe (and America). The majority identify with the West they either identify and like it or identify with it and dislike it even if you dislike its still what you are butthurt about. Got any sources about this part? Either empirical or anecdotal
>>253955 Just look at videos of people in Moscow and to a lesser degree St. Petersburg look at what they all buy watch and consume it's all western brands and western trends or copies of western brands ( like copies of western TV shows or fast food franchises just done with Russia characters and with perogies) these cities set the trend for everyone else in the country and the West sets the trend for those cities nobody identifies with China maybe some conservative Muslims identify with Islamic civilization but the rest of them are also westernized consumers and internet users who listen to Russian gangster rap and whatnot which is another brand and trend.
>>254010 1. I wouldn’t even know where to search for those videos that’s why I asked you.
>>225587 As someone who's part black, I'd tell you to go fuck yourself for treating compassion for your fellow man like a zero-sum game. There's no need to bring race into this.
>>225587 >god forbid a European country goes through similar hardship for a decade <t.knows nothing about tsarist russia People were driven to cannibalism in Russia during the 90s. Get fucked. >its political apparatus gave up on socialism <a small group of sabotaging faggots and decades of CIA shilling = the entire political apparatus Gulag >wikipedia articles with racial virtue signalling <not understanding liberal sectarianism Why are you even here, go back to r/socialism.
>>225155 Once I imagined a story where the USSR was defeated by the Nazis and the Russians driven back to Siberia and forced to live like savages, Communism and the church eventually merging with only the vaguest memories of the actual substance of both. Very depressing but would be interesting to write.
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>>291447 >forced to live like savages, Communism and the church eventually merging with only the vaguest memories of the actual substance of both So just like how Russia is nowadays.
>>292545 >reeee you're not allowed to work with the church in donbass
>>292552 If only that was the extent of the KPRF's collaboration with the church.
>>292545 Didn't the church declare the Romanovs to be saints?
>>292566 Yes. It also calls the Revolution satanic and holds public prayers for victims of the evil Soviet regime and shit. I don't actually think autistic militant atheism is needed at this time, but what Zyuganov and KRPF are doing is beyond collaborationistic. Literally cucking out to a bunch of monarchist reactionaries to court the old church lady vote. Absolutely pathetic.
>>243185 >bad taste bro, those gravestones are bad taste
I wonder how much prostitution was a power-thing for the businessmen during the Yeltsin reform. Violating desperate women in need of money from a country that threatened your social order after they collapsed must have felt euphoric.
>>292569 The church always collaborated with the Monarchy so I don't see why they would stop now.
>>292586 I'm talking about how the Russian "Communist" Party collaborates with the Church.
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>Russia in the 90s <everyone: what a terrible time <me: lets commission an Initial-D parody by Wierd Al
>>292566 Not saints but holy martyrs
>>297178 Perfect
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>>308483 more like holy shit amirite
>>225305 too late you dumb bitch
>>225113 History really ended in 1991 but the bad guys won.
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>>310551 "What would happen if capital succeeded in smashing the Republic of Soviets? There would set in an era of the blackest reaction in all the capitalist and colonial countries, the working class and the oppressed peoples would be seized by the throat, the positions of international communism would be lost." - Stalin, Speech at The Seventh Enlarged Plenum of the E.C.C.I. (December 1926)
>>319552 I was looking for this quote. The working class across the globe is stuck in a dark age.
>>310551 Let's not kid ourselves. The USSR was absolutely terrible as workers at no point had control of the means of production. This would have prevented the massive privatization that occurred in the 90s. It was absolutely a repressive state, and it generally made it harder to reform such system. However, it was certainly something that anything such as the USSR ever existed. Hope is not lost. We can learn from past experiments, ever advancing the science of socialism. We will triumph in the end. The USSR ending was inevitable. However, we will create something new. We always do and we always will. The human spirit cannot be conquered, not by capital, and not by a few losses. Cheer up, comrade. We will win in the end.
>>320070 >The USSR was absolutely terrible A good 60% of ex-Soviet populations heavily disagree and another 20% are supportive of an adjusted USSR >workers at no point had control of the means of production False, workers and their managers had equal power, if a manager was unpopular the workers could easily have them replaced through referendum. Protests also had influence, with numerous unpopular projects being halted. >This would have prevented the massive privatization that occurred in the 90s No it wouldn't have. The privatization of the 90s occurred after the Soviet fall and thus the fall of Soviet control. Workers who attempted (and continue to attempt) to halt privatization were dealt with in a manner similar to the US pinkertons; murders, rapes, executions of union leaders, military force brought in. >It was absolutely a repressive state <*Unironically post nazi apologism and get arrested* <"Help, help I'm being repressed!" fuck this Solzhenitsyn tier logic The USSR had issues, sure but don't exaggerate and then follow up with positive "look to the future".
>>225091 I mean it's not bait, or even sarcasm, but cynical 'truth' from the capitalist side of things.
My mother was born in 1970 and absolutely hates the soviet union, she fled to Latin america in the 90s. She gave me a solzhenitsyn book not long ago for me to educate myself lmao. She believes all the meme arguments of gorillions, human nature, etc. Not sure wtf went wrong with her.
>>325029 >she fled to Latin america in the 90s Probably was a dissident, and is doubling down to avoid dealing with what capitalism did to Russia
Whenever I talk to older relatives about the USSR, they start pearl clutching about how repressive and wicked it was, but as soon as you turn the conversation towards their day-to-day lives and material conditions, they start talking with nothing but fondness. About how everything was free or cheap, how good education was, how people were less alienated from each other and more cultured etc. Liberal propaganda has nothing to do with reality and can cause cognitive dissonance.
>>325029 >Fled in the 90s I'm guessing she had the privilege of avoiding the effects of Boris' reforms.
>>325103 Is this was french philosphers in the 20th century meant by capitalism and schizophrenia?
>>325103 It's pure cope, people don't want to admit to themselves they were cucked out of a future for no reason.
>>325029 Wait, if she hates SU why did she fled when it was no more?
>>325483 No lmao Deleuze as far as I'm aware was referring to alienation within capitalism.
>>325029 >Not sure wtf went wrong with her that's just the eastern european emigraboomer mindset. >muh USSR bad cuz we didn't have jeans, chewing gum, coca cola n shit
>>325103 Because it was a mix. Living standards were good but the fear of the KGB was real
>>225155 What's the name of the artist?
>>335850 What fucking fear lol
>>325029 Born in 1970 means she became fully grown and politically aware around the worst times, 1987-1992. Perhaps that is why.
>>335911 >what fucking fear Fear of them deciding to fuck with your life. An example from personal life: My grandfather was a musical composer and conductor of a musical band. A KGB agent came to him on his day off and essentially demanded he act as a spy while on tour. He told him to fuck off. The result was that he was banned from traveling outside the country for 8 years because the agent got offended and reported him for "anti-soviet statements" despite this being untrue especially considering his background and family never being "kulaks" or whatever. It was petty vengeance and abuse of local power that the KGB could enable with a flick of their fingers. Living standards were good, but the sun was shining out of every orifice of the Soviet system.
>>325029 >My mother was born in 1970 yfw you realize 1970 was 50 years ago
>>356552 *but the sun wasn't fucking autocorrect
>>238691 >>308466 Why hasn't anyone done parody lyrics here yet?
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>>356552 >the sun was shining out of every orifice of the Soviet system.
>>325103 It was an extremely shitty corrupt authoritarian system that fell like a house of cards. Countries like France and the UK provided far better material conditions for their people and are still shit overall and the USSR was more shit and a regular Empire with regular imperial interests. You have no say in anything westerners spend so much time talking about politics and Drumpf this and that there was no politics at all in the USSR. Towards the end Nobody believed in the ideology including the Communist party and KGB themselves people were totally alienated from the state. The same was the case in the satellites and the Republics years of built up resentment over being occupied and relegated to essentially second class status boiled over and once the authoritarian system showed weakness, showed that it wouldn't put down revolts then the whole thing collapsed. If an anuthrotiatirain system is shown to be comical weak and incompetent it no longer has any "authority" people are no longer afraid of it and ignore it. China and modern Russia are the same shit China and Russia always collapse into civil wars once the system runs its course. Chinas system is the same shit as the Soviet system and the Russian system is the same shit as well jsut stitched and patched together run by pretty much the exact same group of vampires with the exact same worldview and modus operandi the only difference being they make more money now. It's all gonna collapse and fail eventually and inevitably.
>>384818 what's up with all the simpletons trying look at the world through the false dichotomy of authoritarian v libereltarian. >Chinas system is the same shit as the Soviet system and the Russian system is the same shit as well This is just mind rott
>>384818 >First world imperial powers that had centuries to industrialize and loot other continents were richer than a previously semifeudal shithole genius comment
>>384845 The alternative explanation for the collapse of the USSR is that Ronald Raegan did an SDI and the Saudis did an oil price collapse and that scared the Soviet Union into spending money it didnt have on the military collapsing its economy. This version of events just makes the USSR look like a even more retarded incompetent comical empire that was gonna collapse inevitably anyway. >>384855 > Centuries Only one century the 19th the feudal shithole had no problems fighting wars France and Prussia and Sweden in the 18th and early 19th centuries. Polticially The RF remains a semi feudal shithole except now its fascist the rest of it that broke off like Ukraine and the Balts also regressed into fascism Central Asia regressed into Oriental despotism. The russian empire the USSR and RF had lots of time to loot a continent sized landmass with no opposition. In all three cases the looting just always concentrates at the very top with the bureaucracy and whatwver the administration is at the time.
>>225113 Best books on this? I feel like it's highly important to learn about this period in history.
>>384882 >The alternative explanation for the collapse of the USSR is that Ronald Raegan did an SDI and the Saudis did an oil price collapse and that scared the Soviet Union into spending money it didnt have on the military collapsing its economy. This version of events just makes the USSR look like a even more retarded incompetent comical empire that was gonna collapse inevitably anyway. I don't think you realise how much they actually managed to beat the odds, you don't find many countries that withstood as much aggression and overcame as many obstacles. In addition to your ignorance of history, you seem to be bragging about American imperialism. Seems Kinda two-faced.
>>384782 Kek >>384818 >France and the UK provided far better material conditions for their people Yeah you're just making shit up. The UK had to order its pork and eggs from fucking Poland for decades, and real wages of Soviet workers were HIGHER.
>>335904 Gennady Zykov. name of the painting is "1991"
all is fucked up basically. even after the collapse of the USSR there was a conflict between the (Soviet) Council and Yeltsin. At first, the council was for privatization, but when everything went wrong they wanted to regulate the situation and make the country's social situation better and Yeltsin with his oligarchs was against it, 1993 a sad outcome now, we have a president with powers equal to the king under the 1993 constitution the country has a presidential republic more than parliamentary And so Putin is just "reset to zero" his presidential term and now he will rule until his death https://ru.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:Crime_and_incarceration_rates_in_Russia.svg&lang=ru and social welfare is getting worse. even Warsaw pact countries have a better situation https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:%D0%94%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8F_%D0%B2_%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%89%D0%B8%D1%85_%D0%B4%D0%BE%D1%85%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%85_%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%85%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%BE_1.png
also "From Soviets to oligarchs" is a good publication made with Thomas Piketty
>>413849 Got a pdf?
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>>413836 Why was crime slowly going up since the 60s in your chart?
>>225271 Why does that Nabokov hate commies? Are all the best authors commie haters?
New to Marxism, and am a brainlet burger. So what even caused the fall? Based on what I'm reading from the thread, my guess is that the US orchestrated its fall using Boris Yeltsin? We barely learned anything surrounding this in my history classes. We are just told Communism was unsustainable and it was inevitably going to fall.
What are people's take on the attempted coup to stop the dissolution of the Soviet Union?
>>424403 To put a complex situation simply: - Soviet economy was terribly mismanaged for years resulting in frequent shortages and crippling stagnation - Soviet people started to get really pissed off and protests start taking place throughout the USSR - Gorbachëv tries to introduce new reforms (perestroika/glastnost) in effort to bring in a new era to soviet people (i.e. hope that social liberties would pacify resentment toward the soviets and free markets would heal the wounds of bureaucratic competence) - Porkies use these new freedoms as opportunity to pipeline support for separatism and introduction of pro-porky anti-soviet puppets The rest is obvious.Gorbi had good intentions but he grossly underestimated the insidious threats that lay hidden until he opened the gates
>>424469(me) *incompetance, apologies sage for no input
>>424469 >Soviet economy was terribly mismanaged for years Bullshit >frequent shortages Yes, so frequent that, prior to Gorbachev, the CIA noted that the Soviet population was approaching the USA in terms of personal property levels and had over-all better healthcare, education and nutrition than the USA >stagnation Economic data from the time in comparison to the entire timeline of the 20th century shows that it was only 'stagnation' compared to the exponential growth of the past, it was still higher than the USA's level of growth annd was predicted to be leaving its slump soon (until Gorbachev cmae along and fucked it up) >Soviet people started to get really pissed off and protests start taking place throughout the USSR Which were about reforming and going back to their roots and rolling back policies from Khruschev's era. >effort to bring in a new era to soviet people Gorbachev outright admitted having no actual interest in preserving socialism and his actions included outright quashing and repressing opposition and halting production of factories resulting in actual food deficits. http://www.revolutionarydemocracy.org/rdv6n1/gorbach.htm http://m.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-13855239.html >Gorbi had good intentions No, he didn't he lives in mansions that cost more than his collective income over his time in the USSR 3 or even 5 times. He is not some kind well-meaning fool, like Yeltsin, his actions were calculated treason.
>>424404 A based attempt undermined by the fact that the military and KGB were infiltrated by traitors
>>434870 The failure of this was a disaster for humanity TBH
>>441599 Stalin was right
>>421774 Why does this thread exist
What happened to the Russian thread?
>>424384 Nabokov's family were libs, that's why. I believe his father was actually a member of Keresnsky's cabinent but I'm not 100% on that.
>>491285 Because lazy fags making duplicate threads
>>506397 I miss the 2ch invite thread
Something esoteric to complain about in the 90s/late 80s: Public transport. In the USSR throughout most of its existence, buses and trolleys and trains were widely used and fairly well built. However with Gorbachev's arrival, many buses, trollies and train cars were scrapped for being too old and new orders (like the Icarus) were cancelled before being fully realized. This combined with severely reduced maintenance of in-service vehicles, resulted in buses being packed to overflowing, reminiscent of Indian bus-piles in poor areas. Thus, the legacy of the Soviet Union - a comprehensive public transport system was turned into rusted unreliable junk, that was over-worked and always late. Everywhere except Moscow of course.
>>325103 It was more stable and secure than any other period in the history of the countries involved but the hierarchical oppressive society and overly censored culture sucked enormous ass. USSR apologists keep throwing in digits which are correct but you can't quantify the experience. The modern example would be Singapore which is extremely technocratic but soul-crushing for being so sterile and oppressive VS. a "broken" capitalist economy like whatever chaotic Latin American country.
>>516729 >overly censored culture sucked enormous ass So it seemed on the background of the myth of "free america" Until free america came in 1991 and people regret it every day and often say "Soviet propaganda was really the truth" Censorship was indeed heavy, however to say that it made the culture suck is to be ignorant of culture.
>>516432 What I'm really mad about is the slow death of river transport. Shit was extremely cool but phased out during the 90s because muh profits. >>516729 >hierarchical oppressive society And it's not hierarchical and oppressive today? I guess you are now free to beat your wife without being prosecuted so it's more free to some. >overly censored culture Official mass culture on TV, sure, you had to dig elsewhere if you wanted something spicy. Not much different from today when the official culture is trash garbage and you still have to dig elsewhere, just with less hoops to jump through thanks to the internet. I'm sure that problem could have been solved even withing shaky soviet framework, without plunging the whole society into capitalist hell.
>>517410 Americans deserve it more, does that mean that should happen to them?
>>517415 It already has
>>517410 Deserved it for what?
>>517303 > say that it made the culture suck is to be ignorant of culture Being born in the 80s, I've consumed most of Soviet content during my childhood. There are a few gems in cartoons, movies, music but overall the culture is just sterile and moralizing, like puritanic US media in the 80s-90s. >>517350 > And it's not hierarchical and oppressive today? Where did I say it? Also not to this extent in any case. > I guess you are now free to beat your wife without being prosecuted so it's more free to some. If you think domestic violence was absent from the USSR, you are extremely uninformed. > Official mass culture on TV, sure, you had to dig elsewhere if you wanted something spicy. The unofficial culture that didn't send the "right message" was persecuted. Soviet people were obsessed with smuggling Western music and movies into the country while rock'n'roll was banned for a while. Kruschev is famous by visiting an art exposition and calling artists he didn't like "faggots". > Not much different from today when the official culture is trash garbage and you still have to dig elsewhere, just with less hoops to jump through thanks to the internet. I'm sure that problem could have been solved even withing shaky soviet framework, without plunging the whole society into capitalist hell. Not justifying the neoliberal hellscape with "we got Pizza Hut!" but trying to paint Soviet culture as something good is wishful thinking. It was stifling, imagine if a bunch of power-hungry boomers completely controlled the modern culture.
>>517567 >not to this extent Yeah, KGB never had the amount of data collection and surveillance tech modern state security got.
>>225088 This photo is infuriating
>>517618 Which state? Reminder that not everybody lives in the US or another 5-eyes surveillance hell. My 3rd world country barely manages to solve online scams.
It’s funny that you complain of Soviet culture being “stale” and “boring”. I guess it’s “fresh” and “exciting” to you that the modern, westernized, Liberal capitalist culture of Post-Soviet Russia is basically all the men being Drunkards and all the women being Hookers/Mail-order brides, LMAO.
>>517657 That's a dumb stereotype, the Russian culture flourished in the 00s and even the early 10s. You clearly have no idea what are you talking about beyond the wishful thinking to shovel the "CAPITALIST BAD SOVIET GOOD" narrative. Так что иди в жопу ))
>>518319 Where do you see Russia in 5 years?
>>518336 If Putin dies, it will be in a shitty period of oligarch and "silovik"[1] factions fighting each other. If he lives, nothing would fundamentally change and Russia will continue in its new "zastoy"[2] period. Nothing good coming from the left, KPRF is a nothingburger for old people, and they are reformists[3] nowadays. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silovik [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Era_of_Stagnation [3] https://kprf.ru/party/program
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>>522670 10/10 art to occasionally post at liberals dropping imperialist OOPSIIIES!
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>>518319 > Russian culture flourished in the 00s and even the early 10s Right, like the movie culture, between Krizhovnikov and the others shitting their bed every year, its been just great. Or perhaps music? Right, barely kept alive with Blue Bird and other programs that are a GHOST compared to soviet times The only good 'CULTURE' in Russia today that isn't from Soviet or pre-Soviet times is the comedians, and even those (KVN and the others) are modernizations of Soviet programs Its like you ENJOY your 2000s/2010s reputation of being drunk adidas-wearing gopniks using idiotic americanized russian words like "риальны", because "america good!" This faggot fad began with fucking Tsoi and DDT and Talkov and hasn't stopped since, and while Tsoi and DDT make good music, the former is dead and the latter has gone to the dogs, still repeating his anti-soviet drivel 30 years since it fell. Just because the 2000s were better than the "Wild 90s" doesn't make them good. Это не говоря о Чечне и ЕГ
>>517567 >If you think domestic violence was absent from the USSR It was far more reduced thats for sure. >unofficial culture that didn't send the "right message" was persecuted >just sterile and moralizing >Muh boomers FFS m8 I don't know where you were growing but that wasn't my experience of that. If you mean it didn't have gory movies and cartoons... that's not really true either, nor is that "sterile" or "moralizing". >Banned Ah bugger off, this whole shit is over-played. They were right to ban a lot of those shmucks as was proven in the late 80s and 90s when they got complete freedom and began releasing utter shite uncensored, and people lapped it up because of how edgy and "new" it was. Just because some youth and "rebels" smuggled products does not mean that this was a sentiment shared by the majority of the population. And as for bans... it was specific songs and people. Melodia was releasing Beatles albums since the 60s, merely editing out songs that were not approved.
>>526603 Russian movies are 99% bad, agreed. But the amount of literature fucking exploded in every single genre. Dozens of subcultures flourished. Russian electronic music of different genres is known worldwide. I don't listen to rock much but even Aquarium produced the best albums in the 00s. >>526624 > I don't know where you were growing Born in Leningrad, raised in St.Petersburg. > that's not really true either, nor is that "sterile" or "moralizing". For example, the majority of Soviet cartoons tried to shovel the "Correct Soviet Ideas" instead of being playful and developing the imagination. > editing out songs that were not approved. > They were right to ban a lot of those shmucks > and people lapped it up "Stoopid people must be controlled and directed" – uh, we won't understand each other, sorry.
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>>517567 >Being born in the 80s, I've consumed most of Soviet content during my childhood. There are a few gems in cartoons, movies, music but overall the culture is just sterile and moralizing, like puritanic US media in the 80s-90s. >Not justifying the neoliberal hellscape with "we got Pizza Hut!" but trying to paint Soviet culture as something good is wishful thinking. It was stifling, imagine if a bunch of power-hungry boomers completely controlled the modern culture. Burger here who is interested in Soviet culture and it's funny you mention that because I can see this. Also I'm from Texas and grew up in a conservative part of it and I get vibes of it in the official Soviet culture, like it's weirdly familiar to me, such as the cornball movies I'd watch with my Christian relatives during Christmas that are "wholesome" and over-the-top sentimental: https://youtu.be/ODu888i14-I I like some of the Soviet movies I've watched but I'm also probably watching the good shit and not the schlock. I like some of the Brezhnev-era war movies too like the "Liberation" series because it's just interesting watching these Soviet war epics, and I like to read about the history of the war. Also, most Americans never saw any of this stuff and suppressed the Soviet experience in historical memory for Cold War purposes. I think that has been slowly changing, though, for the better among younger people who are interested in this stuff. I think David Glantz, the American military historian, has had a very positive contribution over here. At the same time, the characters in these war films can across as these badass John Wayne types except they're going "uraaahhh!" They remind me of the patriotic Boomer post-war movies made by Hollywood. And these Soviet films can be weird because while these movies were clearly trying to glorify the war for patriotic reasons and for the purposes of state at the time, the war was also incredibly traumatic of course and a bad thing, so there will be some bizarrely dissonant music playing in parts, and then at the end of the movie -- after Berlin falls and the war is over -- it cuts to scenes of present-day (1970s) life on the streets of Moscow and East Berlin with a frightening message about all the lives lost in the war because of fascism, and Beethoven's Fifth Symphony (DUM DUM DUM DUM) is playing. So it concludes with an anti-war and anti-militarist message (one of the good things about the Soviet Union imo) after spending six hours in this epic movie about how awesome and fun the war was. Of course this isn't to say the Soviets didn't save the goddamned world from an apocalypse, which is what they did. It's just a contradiction that made me think. I think some of these contradictions though came from a kinda carryover Stalinism, even though there had been official deStalinization. I mean that to say that the contradiction was inserted into the culture in the Stalin years and didn't really work itself out until it exploded in the 80s. Like, on the one hand, we're supposed to be socialists. But for a lot of different reasons including exigent circumstances, the party moved to encourage artistic conservatism and also in matters of family. But socialism is supposed to at least be partly about setting aside your own immediate self-interest for the long-term interest of the society, and encouraging conservatism down to family relations is going to clash with that, because you're going to encourage people to only act in ways that will immediately benefit themselves and their families. So you get what you got under Brezhnev, which a socialist society, albeit run by a bunch of stodgy, conservative hardhats in the process of their agonizingly slow self-destruction. Like, the culture became frozen in amber. Actual, lived Soviet society for people was a lot different in the 80s than it was in the early 50s. So the official culture became increasingly at odds with how people were actually living. Anyways there's a late-Soviet movie Город Зеро that critiqued Soviet society that I really liked and it pokes fun at these contradictions, as I see them. I like that movie a lot. And none of this is to say that the collapse of the USSR was in any way good, and I think what happened in the 90s was criminal, and a lot of the people in the U.S. who benefited and profited from that -- and some who were directly involved in destroying the country -- have been rewarded in the U.S. and are often the same people (literally the same people) blaming Russia now for American problems.
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>>517567 >Not justifying the neoliberal hellscape with "we got Pizza Hut!" but trying to paint Soviet culture as something good is wishful thinking. It was stifling, imagine if a bunch of power-hungry boomers completely controlled the modern culture. Would you say Soviet boomers were superior to their American counterparts in any respects? Much like >>527047, I grew up in a very conservative part of America too yet I find that corny sentimental semi-Christian streak in Soviet culture endearing. Memoirs of idealistic young Americans who immigrated to the Soviet Union only to discover building socialism isn't easy or beautiful are often held up by our boomers as evidence that our way of life is somehow innately superior. It strikes me as the hubris that immediately precedes the fall of an empire. Our boomers were handed every advantage in life, born atop a mountain of corpses with wealth unimaginable and they have squandered it. Most did not lose loved ones in the war. They do not know what its like to industrialize a nation. They have no sympathy for the colonized and sometimes even celebrate western Europe's history of slavery and genocide. What do you make of all that? Do you suppose even the most conservative section of Soviet society had some formative experiences which revealed to them truths many Americans remain blind to? Pic related.
>>527047 > I like some of the Brezhnev-era war movies Those would be like the modern movies about Vietnam. I prefer post-war B&W movies that focus less on the patriotism and more on the horrors of war, like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fate_of_a_Man > Like, the culture became frozen in amber. Actual, lived Soviet society for people was a lot different in the 80s than it was in the early 50s. You are right, hence the incredible hunger for Western imports. This modern movie tries to depict the issue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stilyagi_(film) > I think what happened in the 90s was criminal Agreed, absolutely criminal and the Soviet people were completely unprepared for neoliberal capitalism – it was like throwing modern urban dwellers into deep jungle. >>527086 > Would you say Soviet boomers were superior to their American counterparts in any respects? One things that comes to mind is their dedication to promote multi-ethnical solidarity and curb racism, like that movie about a Soviet lady having a black child and being shunned in the US but not in the USSR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circus_(1936_film) > What do you make of all that? Do you suppose even the most conservative section of Soviet society had some formative experiences which revealed to them truths which many Americans remain blind to? Not sure, my mom in her 60s thinks she's still a communist. It probably was true long time ago but the last 30 years made her extremely individualistic, her views are indistinguishable from a US Republican. She likes the USSR for stability and the feel of power they had as a huge empire. Putin is her hero, of course, because he "made the world respect Russia again".
>>527139 >Those would be like the modern movies about Vietnam. I prefer post-war B&W movies that focus less on the patriotism and more on the horrors of war, like Thanks for the recommend. I will probably like that movie much more. I like some of the science fiction films too. I'll clarify that the Brezhnev war flicks are interesting to me more as a military history and "contextual" curiosity if that makes sense.
>>527145 You are welcome! One more movie I recalled, the swamp scene was absolutely horrifying to watch when I was a kid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cranes_Are_Flying
>>225088 You can read "The Oligarchs" for a good summary of all the shit and corruption by the businessmen during the rush toward privatization.
how is this thread still alive?
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>>533666 Because the restoration of capitalism in the USSR was the worst tragedy of 20th century and everyone should know about it Why is there no Victims of Privatization foundation?
>>533677 let's make one, lol
>>533684 This but unironically
>>526738 >instead of being playful and developing the imagination. Блять ты что бредиш? >Stoopid people must be controlled and directed Не паясничяй умник
>>533677 >Victims of Privatization foundation Because capitalism is "a gift"
Why does it seem (to me at least, please correct me if I'm wrong eastern european anons) that Russia devolving back to capitalism was so much more catastrophic than any other previously former Warsaw Pact socialist country? Like I'm sure all countries received sever hits to all their economic and living standard indexes and whatnot but Russia got fucked hard bro. Like super fucking hard. Like ~10 million deaths in the 90s? Why did they get so screwed? And why years later have they not been able to unscrew themselves? It's a real shame, from all the shit and progress they achieved as the USSR, Russia is a shithole now. And I understand for example in the case of the DDR, the former East German territory is statistically shittier than the rest of Germany (obviously not cause of muh gommunism but because all socialist countries which devolve back to capitalism suffer this symptom) but again, what differentiates Russia from these other countries?
The US basically rigged the 1996 presidential election in favour of Yeltsin to stop the Communist party being voted back in. https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/06/14/yelt-j14.html
>>559297 It just looks that way because the USA has been talking shit on Russia ever since Putin decided to not be Yeltsin 2.0 All the Eastern Warsaw Pact countries suffered similarly, the European states like the CSSR and Germany and Poland were swept up into NATO and given a fine gilded veneer of "good life"
>>559339 I don't need the US to tell me the capitalist restoration in Russia was catastrophic and turned Russia into a shithole. I know Russia is a shithole, and they do to but for the wrong reasons. Just seems like a poor answer imo, blaming the US of everything, when we should analyze what makes the devolution of historical materialism so violent and destructive.
>>559367 You're missing my point. The USA goes out of its way to hide and patch the issues of Western Warsaw pact countries by pulling them into NATO and producing mini-Marshall plans for them while Russia lacked this completely, instead being dismantled actively and having its few successes ignored or belittled and all its shit points blown out of proportion. While everyone is tlaking shit about the RF, no-one is noticing the Horrid condition of the other countries. Why? Because Russia is the main opposition for the USA.
>>225091 >bait how?
>>225088 Vanilla Ice did a concert there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3uFErAO7O4
>>225088 Pretty fucking bad. I was still too young to remember, but my parents told me a lot of horror stories. Ex: Not being paid for months at a time, being randomly arrested/fined for very very blatant trumped-up charges, no money for anything (ironically in the Capitalist Utopia of the 1990's was the only time when anyone in my family was in any actual risk of starvation), rampant crime everywhere, complete collapse of the medical system (my grandpa DIED pretty much because the hospital that he was sent to lacked some medicine that he needed and nobody was able/willing to transfer him anywhere else), etc. etc. etc. The 1990's in Eastern Europe was a crime on par with any of the bullshit MUH 100 GORRILLION COMMUNIST DEATHS stories that liberals always talk about. However it goes completely unacknowledged and seems pretty much unknown in the West.
>>573993 >seems pretty much unknown in the West the line is pretty much that Gorbachev pressed the freedom button and then slices of Pizza Hut® pizza started falling out of his pockets directly into the laps of the starving Russian people and they were so grateful they definitely voted in Yeltsin completely without the aid of the US in '96. nobody ever even mentions shit like it taking until 2008 or so for suicide to hit pre-1989 levels. wonder why
>>573285 I can't hear anyone singing along kek
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>>517410 And now the chickens come back to roost.
>>225102 Barbarians plundering Rome.
>>225130 What kind of country just destroys everything it's built 70 years prior? It's either madness or sabotage.
>>226604 The goal was not to transition USSR, the goal was to destroy it. And it was a success.
>>241334 The word "kulak" means a tight fist. ANd I tell you, it does not have any positive connotations whatsoever. You have to imagine what kind of relationship had the ordinary peasants with the "kulaks" to grant them such a colloquialism. Try basic logic.
>>325029 "If a nigger came through this door, I (at least) wouldn't have shot him" - Brodsky. That, and defending Pinochet, advocating for dropping the h bomb on vietnam among other things should really put into perspective how much of a piece of shit human beings soviet dissidents at large were. "It's sad but you see they are not really human." Brodsky on vietnamese people. Source: Carl Proffer, "Brodsky Bez Kupior" 2017.
>>424327 Because the population grew also, I guess.
>>533677 Because you’d be murdered like the mayor of Nefteyugansk or imprisoned for hate speech against jews if you’d try to take back money from the semibankirschina, chubais and friends.
>RESOLUTION of the 3rd All-Union Conference of the Society "Unity, for Leninism and Communistic Ideals" October 28, 1990, Leningrad. ON THE LACK OF CONFIDENCE IN THE POLICIES OF THE GENERAL SECRETARY OF THE CENTRAL COMMITTEE OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY OF THE SOVIET UNION [CC CPSU] M.S. GORBACHEV. Faced with catastrophic consequences for the people, the country, and the party due to M.S. Gorbachev's policy of so-called "Perestroika", and in view of the fact that this policy has absolutely revealed its bourgeois-restorationist character, and in consideration of the fact that we are on the brink of an even graver national catastrophe in connection with the planned implementation in the country of the "stabilization program" from the International Monetary Fund, which is disguised as a transitional program toward a market economy, the 3rd All-Union Conference of the Society "Unity, for Leninism and Communist Ideals," expresses its lack of confidence in the policies of M.S. Gorbachev as General Secretary of the CC CPSU. We feel that the only force in the country capable of changing the course of the events in a constructive way, without leading to civil war, to date continues to remain the Communist Party. We invite all honest, socialistically- and patriotically-oriented members of the CPSU, members of the Central Committee and the CC CPSU, party organizations at all levels, and the communist parties of all union republics to request the convening of a special meeting of the CPSU, to raise the question of: The dismissal of M.S. Gorbachev and his more zealous associates, who were involved in the unleashing of a bourgeois counterrevolution in the Soviet Union, from all elected party posts and about their exclusion from the ranks of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. The recall of M.S. Gorbachev and said persons from deputy posts, to which they were appointed only because they were party functionaries. The immediate removal of the country from this general national crisis not along the path of the restoration of capitalism but of socialist renewal. An investigation into the real reasons and processes that formed this crisis situation during 1985-1990, which is unprecedented in terms of severity and danger for the Soviet government, and calling the guilty to account before the party and the country. The All-Union Society "UNITY" recommends that all members of the organization develop propaganda campaigns for this resolution at the local level, firstly, by means of conducting open party, trade-union and similar meetings, to achieve the concurrence of CPSU party organizations. Forward the proceedings from the open All-Union Party Conference to Call M.S. Gorbachev to Account before the Party to the CC CPSU, to newspapers, and to the political executive committee of "Unity". The resolution was accepted unanimously. Chairman of the political executive committee of the All-Union Society "Unity--for Leninism and Communist Ideals" [signed] N. ANDREEVA https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/archives/trans-ab2unity.html
https://youtu.be/7ZBBDZXJNoc 8:46 "The mask of humanity fall from capital. It has to take it off to kill everyone - everyone you love, all the love and tenderness in the world. It has to take it off just for one second. To do the deed."
>>602227 >>N. ANDREEVA based
Reasking this question: Why does it seem (to me at least, please correct me if I'm wrong eastern european anons) that Russia devolving back to capitalism was so much more catastrophic than any other previously former Warsaw Pact socialist country? Like I'm sure all countries received sever hits to all their economic and living standard indexes and whatnot but Russia got fucked hard bro. Like super fucking hard. Like ~10 million deaths in the 90s? Why did they get so screwed? And why years later have they not been able to unscrew themselves? It's a real shame, from all the shit and progress they achieved as the USSR, Russia is a shithole now. And I understand for example in the case of the DDR, the former East German territory is statistically shittier than the rest of Germany (obviously not cause of muh gommunism but because all socialist countries which devolve back to capitalism suffer this symptom) but again, what differentiates Russia from these other countries?
>>604579 It was revenge. The goal of US in transitioning USSR to capitalism was not merely to change it, but to destroy it and turn it into a resource colony, that it may never rear its head again. At least that's what I've come to believe.
>>604579 >Why does it seem (to me at least, please correct me if I'm wrong eastern european anons) that Russia devolving back to capitalism was so much more catastrophic than any other previously former Warsaw Pact socialist country? I'm not sure what the pretext of it, but the reformers of the other socialist countries did not harbor critical resentment towards communism (i.e. generally agreeing to compromises and such), and saw their purpose in bettering life. Russian reformers, self-admitted here, believed that there was a very high chance of Communism regaining power in Russia, and consciously burned everything (i.e. boosting Mafia to use it as a buffer) to prevent it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4qgQcZvvqE
>>605577 I really think Russia got fucked extra harder because of what the Russian revolution represented and the way capitalists had to wait 70 years to get into Russia. Like a modern version of the Romans burning Carthage.
>>602248 Source of the quote?
>>605640 The deserter from Disco Elysium game. https://youtu.be/IITEJcr7A6E?t=3040
>>605577 >>605590 These both seem like good takes imo, thanks for the input.
>>605590 > but the reformers of the other socialist countries did not harbor critical resentment towards communism <looks at poland <looks at the Balts <looks at the Czechs Nah
>>606397 Baltic states are former USSR. Former Socialist party in Czechia remained in power. Rebranded socialist party in Poland returned to power after one term.
>>606444 >Former Socialist party in Czechia remained in power The Communist Prty also eists in Russi today, this is meaningless because actual political action trump such arbitrary things as "being in power" Poland is aggressively attacking and tearing down the USSR and its legacies while proposing support for the fascists who were glad to murder them. removing everything from commemorations to historic facts. The same applies to the Czechs who relish their liberalism and create a mythology about the Prague Spring and "le evul tankies".
>>616432 ...was there supposed to be post here?
>>622846 Based
>>225115 This reminds me of my hometown of Detroit but worse.
>>638156 The same thing happened to both.
>>640700 That is certainly true. It makes me sad the way capitalism has poisoned this town and afar.
>>526603 is there a translation of that pic
>>517425 You are not even close. Not even close of what they deserve.
>>646697 Plenty of translations in the comments there, the new Admin has done a good job, especially since a lot of those were my old translations that were on the old booru.
>>655314 Praise for an admin?! Next you'll say they listen to people.
>>661519 Nah they don't, not the same peeps
Honestly this thread needs more contribution, simply because it provides a perfect avenue to rally Russian comrades.
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>>671043 LOL not even that untrue TBH
>>670500 There already is a Russian thread. We need to advertise on 2ch more.
>>225088 Has this thread hit bumplimit?!
>>603257 >In the Soviet Union itself the counter-revolution has brought the people a catastrophe from which there is no way out, because capitalism is in deep crisis, a crisis which expresses itself in the destruction of the productive forces, the uniquely integral production complex of the country. Thousands of enterprises are closing, production levels have dropped to those of the early 1970's, valuable equipment is being lost, rare supplies of raw materials stolen, coal-mines inundated, farm animals butchered because of shortage of fodder. Cold and starvation are threatening this winter and unemployment is increasing. All this is happening when the working class as a result of "Perestroika" has become non-political, ceasing to be a class. By organising genocide, the counter-revolutionaries are taking their revenge on the previous generation which had built and defended socialism. In the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania for example, those who participated and who were disabled in the great patriotic war, have lost their pensions. Instead the national bourgeoisie that has come to power has awarded high pensions to those who fought the Red Army in the war, who hiding in forests after the war, raided and plundered villages and murdered true communists. And similar things are taking place in the Ukraine, Moldavia and in Russia, where war veterans, who saved our lives, are now being humiliated not only in words but also physically. >We may ask when did the coup take place which has plunged the Soviet people into bloodshed and misfortune? We consider that it took place after the events of August 1991 in Moscow, which were neither a "revolt" nor a "coup d'etat". It happened after the formation of the so-called state emergency committee. Up till that point the revival of capitalism had been conducted under the guidance of the opportunist leadership of the C.P.S.U. and had been camouflaged under the slogan of "socialist renewal". By the summer of 1991 the counter-revolution was ripe and a scenario was prepared for the move to the next stage, a scenario we believe was planned abroad. In this anti-communist drama the role of producer was played by Gorbachev and others and the role of actors was played by the pseudo-democrats who mobilised for the defence of the white house. The result of the provocation and the whole farce was that the working people were deprived of political power and the promotion of capitalism moved forward without any serious obstacle. A purge took place in the army, starting with those who had remained faithful to the oath to the Soviet state. Members of the state emergency committee such as Yanayev, Pablov, Krychikov and Shwenin were thrown into prison, while Minister of Internal Affairs Pugo and some other leading officials of the C.C. of the C.P.S.U. committed suicide in very strange circumstances. Gorbachev on his return from his so-called "detention" in the Crimea issued decrees prohibiting the activities of the C.P.S.U. and party organisations in the capital and local areas. One may ask why no one came forward to express support for the C.C. of the C.P.S.U. and for the regional and city party committees. The answer is clear of course: the party founded by Lenin and educated by Stalin ended its existence long ago and was converted over the last thirty years from a working-class party to a so-called "party of the whole people", a receptacle for social democrats, anti-communists, nationalists and anarchists. The party was not dissolved by anyone in fact; it simply crumbled, because only its signboard remained communist. https://www.mltranslations.org/Russia/andreeva.htm
>>676295 Bumplimit is 500
So when it comes to declassifying intelligence documents there's always a delay. So for quacky stuff like the CIA psychic program it took 20-30 years, or for example Seven days to the River Rhine took 20 years. Advanced technologies that could assist in Civil aviation or shipbuilding come out 40 years later. And dossiers about how different coups were organized are released to the public after use as study manuals for CIA guys. What do you guys think the chances are that sometime 20-30-40-50 years from now we'll see the public revealing of documents which more thoroughly incriminate the US and NATO in the dissolution?
>>676429 I know, its just that the thread was on the bottom despite me posting not long before and I wondered if it was locked or something.
The new constitution is finishing the work of the 90s.
>>680827 It's just the beginning
>>680996 of the end? or the new golden age?
>>424384 read his quasi-autobiography Speak, Memory. he's bourgeoisie; it is and always was in his class interest to hate commies. still one of the greatest writers of the 20th century. what can ya do.
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>>676483 >What do you guys think the chances are that sometime 20-30-40-50 years from now we'll see the public revealing of documents which more thoroughly incriminate the US and NATO in the dissolution? Such documents would never come out unless they are irrelevant. That is, the USA has to turn socialist for it.
>>684915 America will turn socialism because pocs, such as aoc, bernie, ilhan omar promote socialism.
>>684862 already posted >>671043
>>684935 LOL ok liberal
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>>684935 And pigs will grow wings and fly
>>699225 Go die in a hole unironically, scum.
>>676483 no transparency of any kind is ever going to come out of the intelligence agencies again, unless it somehow benefits them. they are completely unaccountable to the law now.
>>601995 That's how you integrate into the global capitalist production :^)
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>>684915 >Such documents would never come out unless they are irrelevant. That is, the USA has to turn socialist for it. >>699279 >no transparency of any kind is ever going to come out of the intelligence agencies again, unless it somehow benefits them. they are completely unaccountable to the law now. No it's damn near certain that the stuff the secret agencies do now is going to come out because the only way they keep secrets is by leverage over people. Maintaining that leverage is a burden that accumulates over time. They can't actually keep secrets from other governments, even during the cold war with the iron curtain in place, the Soviets and US secret agencies had nearly perfectly mirrored each others data. In addition to this, digital society collects vast amounts of data that have traces of secret agency activity, and while it is currently not possible to do enough data processing to reconstruct secret agency activity from that. It will be, in the future. The transparency wall is coming and very few secrets will get over it. In the long run we will be able to scan the planet and reconstruct the past from that. Historians will eventually get scientific measurement instruments like any other discipline. The victors, don't write history, they are just submitting a preliminary draft.
>>699504 >The victors, don't write history, they are just submitting a preliminary draft. <in the future Yeah you're way too optimistic
>>699504 >In the long run we will be able to scan the planet and reconstruct the past from that. Yeah, if capitalism doesn't snuff us out first.
>>702101 Not him, but it isn't that unlikely that a lot of shit would come out of a potential NATO dissolution, or just any breakdown of the US in general. They have declassified a lot of horrible shit, like when they made public how the CIA had plans to bomb Miami as an attempted false-flag to justify a deeper intervention against Cuba. Now if the international community would care is a bigger concern, cause they can declassify all they want but if the rest of the western world (and most american citizens too ofc) don't give a fuck then it won't mean anything, and as we've seen up until now from what they have declassified it seems no one has given a shit.
>>706405 >They have declassified a lot of horrible shit, like when they made public how the CIA had plans to bomb Miami as an attempted false-flag to justify a deeper intervention against Cuba. The mere fact that they declassified it, implies that there are far-far worse crimes and plans that they had that they simply shredded
>>706434 That is true, it makes me wonder what they would have to declassify for a significant part of the american population to be outraged.
>>706436 >what they would have to declassify for a significant part of the american population to be outraged. That they were secretly the KGB all along. lel. But seriously I have no idea, the shit they HAVE released is outright horrifying and still has little mass effect.
ITT americans and other ignorant westerners lecturing others about foreign countries they dont know anything about
>>707144 For once a Black-flag poster is correct, though it's likely for the wrong reasons.
Can a russian, or someone who knows russian or write in their script translate the federal subjects on this image for me, please? I'd be extremely grateful.
Ty bby >1) Use the translator thread or the Russian thread, this is a more esoteric one I know I'm sorry; I looked at the >>668788 (For New Anons and Lurkers: FAQ, rules, and reading list) which includes a list of "Region specific threads", but this one hadn't been included yet apparently. I'll tell them to update it. Thanks again
I'm an atheist for sure, but sometimes I wonder maybe Yeltsin wasn't just an opportunistic bureaucrat, but a follower and agent of Satan.
>>707351 No problem as long as you're aware. :)
>>707387 >follower and agent of Satan He was
>>707387 Given the satanic shit a lot of Western Elites are known for (including questionable "rituals" and "festivals" this is not unusual to think. For example the London Olympics from (I think) 2012, had a massive, strange art-house performance done during the night where a strange giant baby lay on some altar thing and a weird horned goat-like monster was puppeted around.
>>225113 I can totally see what influenced the Metro 2033 novels now.
>>708240 >that opening ceremony also pays tribute to the NHS seriously, what's with brits and the NHS? it's mental.
>>242433 Bumping this.
>>708293 Because its better than the USA
>>709136 >When even the Scotts have better health coverage than us Fuck
>>708293 it's the one good thing they ever did
>>711661 Scots actually have the most surviving parts of the UK benefits system. I think it might even be expanded on.
>>708273 We need a Metro 2033 thread in /games/ or at least a post about it in the Stalker thread.
>>715533 BTW Stalker 2 is being hyper
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>>715533 So I'm playing exodus and it's just another boring shooter - you run, you shüt, you grab loot. But this part, I've shit my pants at. They literally portray soviet (or russian, idk about the lore) government as a group of blood crazed cannibals feasting on their braindead subhuman people. Holy shit. Ukres just can't keep their bullshit off. Is this kind of subtle sociopolitical commentary gonna continue?
>>723259 I think the author went to an Israeli university, it's obviously liberal.
>>715533 >>723259 You should play ATOM rpg, similar setting, fallout-type tactical turn based game, on the right side of history.
>>723267 >fallout-type tactical turn based game So, trash?
>>723280 Are you the same fallout hater from /games/?
>>723369 Probably
>>723259 Repost this in >>>/games/
>>225088 something that is often left beheind is the role of nazbol as counter-culture during those years, cleverly uniting the disenchanted youth from all extremes under one flag, something only possible in a country such as Russia. However, it fell down pretty quick. here's a very good and informed documentary on the party/movement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NlA8tCer9I
>>225096 Holy shit that's actually insane.
>>740760 >>225587 >wikipedia <dey deserved it You are a sociopathic narcissist, fuck you.
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>>740681 CIS lives matter
>>750809 Wonder if the the name was intentional?
>>752869 ...Given Lucas's histroy of praising Soviet cinema and being for the Vietnam freedom fighters, it is possible.
Bumping this great thread bc it's full of effortposts
>>770349 Yeah, rock on
>>752869 Confederation of Independent States Confederation of Independent Systems Maybe?
>>784483 God I hate old CIS white males
I really regret that Yeltsin died. Now i won't see him hanging from the streelight.
>>798900 You won't see Putin up there either.
>>798900 Gorby is still alive and it won't happen to him.
>>799175 Gorby is just a condom: it got used and then thrown the fuck out. Now anyone who sees him just turns their face back in disgust.
>>799210 >>799143 Kek disgusting, yet funny
This thread shouldn't die.
>>814949 Let it hit the bump limit and then it should be archived. No point in cycling it since that would kill all the effortposts itt
>>814979 We'ree still far from Bumplimit and archive.is doesn't save images in full resolution unless you save their html seperately. >>814984 I considered that actually.
>>814984 That's a good idea, since it'll stay afloat easier there.
How bad was the economic liberalization of Russia in the 90s? Did literally everything get privatized?
>>823196 Formally a large portion of the economy is "state-owned" which in reality translates to being possessed by companies belonging to chenovnik oligarchs. A massive number of factories (at least several thousand) were completely abandoned and turned into mall-space or left to rot.
>>225095 This made me sad.
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>>825574 >TFW even Radio Free Europe only confirms the USSR was better AHAHAHAHA
>>517303 Don’t mean to Idpol here or whatever but you know you can smell the bacon cooking when white Americans casually disregard that the lives of black Americans in their discussion about muh freedoms
>>825961 They will probably reframe this as anti-Russian propaganda to portray Russians as "backward authoritarians" to their liberal audience.
>>826103 Currently they just shill for anything anti-Putin.
>>825574 LMFAO what were they thinking when they put this up? I know that rightwingers tend to "support" communists if it means destabilizing their current enemies but this seems absurd as shit from their perspective, to pain the USSR in a positive light to own le evil Putin.
In a what-if scenario, what do you guys think should've happened for the August Coup to succeed? And had they succeeded, how hard back would they have rolled Gorbachevs reforms? Like would they have reinstituted a planned economy or would they have adopted the Chinese model of bird-cage economy?
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>>826470 They renounced since it was clear that the USSR and the Eastern Bloc were already dead, Gorby did really outdone himself in that regard. A liberal disguised as a communist. Truly a bastard.
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>>826550 Who makes these memes? I don't think any person who hates Gorby but defends Deng exist
Who was the most based nigga of the Gang of Eight?
>>826755 This implies anyone like Gorby
>>826755 >I don't think any person who hates Gorby but defends Deng exist >>8925
>>826896 I think this is because the vulgar /leftypol/ ML is really just a Brezhnevite brainlet who will support any country ruled by a communist party which calls itself socialist (or in the process of building socialism). This is why they hate Gorbachev, since he was someone who was reversing all of that to turn the USSR into a social democracy, meanwhile to them Deng didn't change China's road to socialism into road to capitalism, he simply took a different approach to building socialism (in their eyes). That's what I think at least.
>>826921 These people would all have supported Gorby if he just waved red flags a little bit harder.
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>>826921 >I think this is because the vulgar /leftypol/ ML Please don't conflate ML with Dengoidism my friend >>826934 It's just a coping mechanism. "You mean we still have a horse in the race???? BASED!"
>>826966 >communism is when you don't have McDonald's Nod my Burgdurs >:D
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>>826978 >Socialism is when you have 30% of the world's billionaires despite having only 15% of the total population and excuse this with muh historical materialism
>>826966 >Please don't conflate ML with Dengoidism my friend That's why I say vulgar ML (I also add Brezhnevite since it fits these people perfectly). It's not from Brezhnev's policy toward China, (or to Deng for that matter, as relations remained cut with him too) but because Brezhnev's policy was literally any country who claims to be socialist is so, even moreso if it's headed by a communist party, and even moreso if they adhere to what we identify as marxism-leninism, ergo they must be supported. This is what the average ML in leftypol looks like, which is why so many of them support China for example (in comparison, I've never seen a self-proclaimed maoist here support current China). It would be interesting however to see how many MLs here actually like China or not, or claim if it's socialist, like a survey, though strawpoll can be coopted very easily as we've seen, so it shouldn't be used anymore to gather userbase opinions on controversial topics.
>>826978 Amerigan sodgielism widd burgers :DDDDD
>>826990 It's so weird because I never encounter these people offline but they are everywhere here.
>>826990 >but because Brezhnev's policy was literally any country who claims to be socialist is so, even moreso if it's headed by a communist party, and even moreso if they adhere to what we identify as marxism-leninism, ergo they must be supported From a foreign policy view, I don't think this was that bad of an approach, because every country has different material starting points and political cultures. >I've never seen a self-proclaimed maoist here support current China). It would be interesting however to see how many MLs here actually like China or not, or claim if it's socialist I think it's the same few retards from the containment thread and that they are a vocal minority. >though strawpoll can be coopted very easily as we've seen, so it shouldn't be used anymore to gather userbase opinions on controversial topics. The surveyfag forgot to include captchas...
>>827022 >From a foreign policy view, I don't think this was that bad of an approach, because every country has different material starting points and political cultures I generally agree, however I mean more in trying to compare this to the average user here who bases himself from this to decide who to support/defend/etc. It's almost like watching people root for their football team, it's like a game to these people.
>>827022 >I think it's the same few retards from the containment thread and that they are a vocal minority It's funny actually, because this is the only place where I've met dengoids who defend Deng and Xi and whatnot to death but dislike Mao. Now there are plenty of things to not like about what Mao did (his late foreign policy is probably the worse and the grave mistakes of the Great Leap Forward for example) however the foreign policy of supporting rightwingers against Soviet-backed communists was also continued by Deng, and Deng brought back private property to China, so it's literally all shit from there.
>>827049 Should add just to clarify, they're very clearly an absolute minority, but I've seen them. I remember they were justifying Deng helping the Mujahideen and even going as far as calling them based freedom fighters against Soviet imperialism lmao.
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>>827033 It's basically: 1) A coping mechanism ("You mean a world power is on our side? BASED") 2) Contrarianism ("Im a burger, my country hates China, so I love China") 3) Not understanding the "critical" aspect of critical support ("IF YOU DONT SUPPORT JACK MA YOU'RE A US IMPERIALIST") 4) Not understanding that Marx never meant historical materialism to be deterministic 5) Not understanding why the USSR failed ("they needed more productive forces!!!") 6) Not understanding how the NEP really looked like (China's 70 year NEP vs USSR's 10 years) 7) Overestimating the material basis needed for a socialist economy (socialism in 2050)
>>827062 Holy fuck whoever made that meme please tell me it was ironic
>>826766 Western liberals do. Pathetic, really.
>>826470 Reasking this
What was the point of no return in the USSR in your opinion which had the single biggest impact which caused its dissolution?
>>830783 If we're talking about "final points after which reforms would have been rather useless", then: Either denying the OGAS reforms or the Afghanistan war. So some time in the 70s. After that you couldn't have saved that mess. OGAS reforms could have made the economy more efficient, made the bureaucracy smaller, curbed the black markets, increased the light industry output. Avoiding the Afghanistan war could have meant that the resources for warfare could have been spent in the internal economy.
>>830783 Gorbachev's perestroika and glasnost in 1986
>>225103 I learned literally nothing about this and I went through that ridiculous International Baccalaureate nonsense for Social Studies in high school. Instead, I learned that Indians liked to trade fur with Europeans for commodities at least 25 times.
>>835536 >International Baccalaureate Wtf is this?
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>>225421 I KNOW IT'S YOU JUST MAKE IT
>>225421 >>835540 I'd really like if they did; for learning more about the details I don't know about and for hopefully showcasing to undecided fence-sitters or left leaning people how catastrophic was the regression from socialism to capitalism in Russia and other former Soviet republics.
>>835537 International high school diploma with the most neolib curriculum imaginable
>>830783 Its founding.
>>835594 fuck off liberal
>>835594 Cringe
Who were some other CPSU members who were influential enough to have become General Secretary instead of Gorbachev and realistically could they've saved the USSR?
>>836946 None, the USSR's problems were systematic and had more to do with the middle managers than the incompetency of the upper leadership, muh Gorbachev is cope.
>>836973 Ok Gorbachev, sure it was.
>>843399 *sigh* This kind of shit is the kind of defense upper officers used at Nuremburg to escape execution, "I didn't do it by my own hand, so it wasn't me!" Take a look at >>602227 >>603257 >>676428 Gorbachev and his cronies Yakovlev, Yeltsin and others started this destabilization from the top, removing and silencing opposition to their liberalism and pushing through reforms under the guise of "returning to leninism"
>>843672 And somebody voted them in before that. And nobody stopped them afterwards. How come that the greatest "socialist" union of republics could be razed to hell with just a bunch of plutocrats who somehow got into this absolute power? Why didn't people go out and protect their beloved system? Why did the apparatus obeyed to all of the orders? Where the fuck were the soviets? USSR becomes something like the >Holy >Roman >Empire after such questions.
>>843672 >Yakovlev Finally someone on this board who knows about this fucker. He is worse than Gorbie and Boris.
>>843833 The public has been lied to, everybody though they would have USSR just slightly reformed. Even the results of the referendum about remaining in USSR was ignored. >Why did the apparatus obeyed to all of the orders? Those who didn't were shot with tanks. >Why didn't people go out and protect their beloved system? Black October, for example. People were disorganized, misinformed and therefore very easy to deal with.
>>836946 grigory romanov >>843838 i've been telling people about yakovlev for ages now. everyone should give this a read (not my essay): http://www.soviet-empire.com/ussr/viewtopic.php?f=110&t=52073
>>830783 After the civil war, when Lenin didn't dare to stop the bureaucratization and introduced democratic centralism, which made consolidation of power easier.
>In 1999, Yakovlev recalled in his introduction to the Russian edition of the Black Book of Communism that prior to perestroika, a select group of intellectuals “informally developed a plan: to hit at Stalin and Stalinism through Lenin, and then, if successful, at Lenin and revolutionism in general through Plekhanov, the Social Democrats, liberalism, and ‘ethical socialism.’” This ‘informal plan’ was successfully carried out during perestroika, and would have a tremendously destructive effect on Soviet mass consciousness. Funny thing, it's still working. Even on leftypol.
>>844302 >it's still working. Even on leftypol. Explain
>>844585 No. That would require too much effort.
>>843833 >someone voted them in You sound like the people who say "Hitler was voted into power, so it was middle-managers" even when his rise was more part of careful conspiratory movement and open-assaults on other parties. >How come that the greatest "socialist" union of republics could be razed to hell with just a bunch of plutocrats who somehow got into this absolute power They didn't have absolute power, they got the head of the KGB onto their side and got lucky with a number of things (such as Chernobyl) which let them pull ahead. If even a couple of things had gone differently, the USSR would likely have not fallen. >Why didn't people go out and protect their beloved system They did, and were crushed not to mention >>740681 >>779101 >>225125 >>844302 Honestly just stop. >>843838 RIght on.
Kind of unrelated, but how were US-Russia relations immediately after the dissolution of the USSR?
>>847477 Well, they immedeately started to expand Nato military bases to the east, for start.
>>847484 Damn so they never were friendly, not even a little bit? Weren't Clinton and Yeltsin friends or something?
>>847491 First of all, why would that matter? It's like you are thiking that elected officials are ones who decide politic, not capitalists who pay them. Second, Yeltsin was a clown who made peopel of his country look retarded alcoholics, of counrse USA president would like that. I am a bit bitter, i know.
>>847491 Of course not, the American attitude was that they'd defeated the USSR on the battlefield and that now Moscow was their bitch. They'd never allow Russia to become "friends" with the west, since that would involve giving Russia an equal seat at the military and economic table and therefore the ability to veto America.
>>847477 The US pretended that "we're great friends" on a public front with Russia, while funneling out resources and people from the ex-USSR through Project Hammer. and the help of Chubayes
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>>844767 >You sound like the people who say "Hitler was voted into power, so it was middle-managers" even when his rise was more part of careful conspiratory movement and open-assaults on other parties. That was my point. A big branch of higher-ups got Gorby there in a very convenient time and protected his ass afterwards to the end. If not him then they would find someone else to do the job, you don't need some ebil mastermind like people here like to portray him, more like he was just a useful idiot which did everything "in good faith". The apparatus rot to the bottom and THAT was the problem, not some yes-"man". >If even a couple of things had gone differently, the USSR would likely have not fallen. So you want to say that it was just a bunch of things that collapsed the SU. I don't even know what an ideal universe we should've got to not only keep the SU (or what sorry state it was in) but also keep it from degenerating to succdam shit. Stinks of idealism, no? >They did, and were crushed And this is why you don't give all the power to bueraucratic clique which showed it's killer retardation back at Novocherkassk in 1962 already.
I've read here the argument that Western sources always exaggerate the economic stagnation the USSR suffered and that supposedly, even if the USSR hadn't changed anything about its economy from Brezhnev's death until Gorbachev started liberalizing, no "collapse" would've happened. Maybe some trouble caused from the stagnation, but not even close to what happened in Russia and the former republics in the 90s. Would you guys agree?
>>855770 Some economists divide the economy in to micro and macro economy, while that has some problems and isn't very marxist, is useful nonetheless for making a point. The USSR was very efficient at the macro level, they hired all the labor and used it in a way that accumulated wealth. They did not have good micro efficiency, like wasting resources and not adopting the most labor efficient production techniques. They had a drop in investment for improving the efficiency and output quality of the heavy industries after the 60s that caused insufficient quality and quantity inputs for light industries responsible for making consumer durables. Labor shortage became problematic in the 80s because they were not very good at reducing labor requirements for one part of the economy in order to move labor to new industries. There is some merit in the stagnation criticism. Better economic management would have reduced the likelihood of collapse. They made other errors they allowed for the rise of black markets, they lacked party discipline etc. The shock-doctrine disaster was preventable but the political pressures to copy the Chinese policy of reform and opening up would have become very strong by the early 2000s. Rescuing the central planning system would have required a lot of reforms long before that. Principally increasing political participation of the population and computer networks that not only linked the industries to the central planning buro but also to each other.
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>>852928 >This shit again FFS this isn't even worth addressing, especially with that nazi propaganda.
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>>857099 >not worth addressing Sure, dead-ass dogmatic. >NO NO NO THIS CAN'T BE TRUE IT HAS TO BE SOME PROPAGANDA Delusional idealist idiot. Propaganda can't work without at least some basis otherwise it becomes a laughing stock and damages your image in the eyes of the target audience. Considering your reaction it's not really the second case huh?
>>859159 >More of those shitty comics <dead ass dogmatic As opposed to your "doomed" from the start bullshit >Delusional idealist <THIS CAN'T BE TRUE IT HAS TO BE SOME PROPAGANDA When you post literal nazi-tier propaganda about how "Stalin returned capitalism" and 'le bolsheviks" only attacks the people, then I have no time for your bullshit. >Propaganda can't work without at least some basis The bigger the lie, the better the propaganda. That post is the most cliched antisoviet lie that you see in all sorts of nazi and capitalist propaganda from Animal Farm to Nazi war leaflets to Cold War caricatures and phrases like "under capitalism people exploit people, under communism it's the other way around" and other pseudo-aphorisms. Your entire argument paints Gorbachev as some sort of tip of the iceburg, when he was at the head of these conspiracies and fuck ups, and guess what, he did it all by disguising it in leftcom-tier shit about "following Lenin and Marx's works more closely" which is why I have littler regard for 90% of leftcom theorylets who lap this shit up. >also keep it from degenerating to succdam shit. 1) Until Gorbachev came into power, succdem shit was barely even a fucking factor in the over-all aspect 2) You're adding on things that I never said you petty strawmanning fuck >why you don't give all the power to bueraucratic clique And you call me an idealist, MFW >Novocherkassk 1962 The sheer irony of this statement is hilarious given how much of this was directly caused by Khruschev who's intent was to go against Stalin whom you seem to dislike. Whatever, stay mad if you want, I'm done with your retarded argument.
>>859159 >Propaganda can't work without at least some basis The best propaganda right now is literally capitalists blaming socialists in the sins tehy themself commited.
>>859292 Don't reply to them, they're a glowfag posting anti-soviet shit with a Soviet flag all over the board.
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>>859285 >literal nazi-tier propaganda about how "Stalin returned capitalism" That wasn't even about returning capitalism but what funktsioneria did he rase. >'le bolsheviks" only attacks the people That was your binary-logic interpretation. The pic clearly shows how old shit was being restored in USSR but ordinary people were still being fucked over for being in any way suspicious to the dictatorship of so-called proletariat, like just being a German or a Jew or having your parents being kulaks closed many doors before you in the "country of built-up socialism" as the Supreme Proletarian called it. Read at least some memories of people who lived back then, fanatic. >The bigger the lie, the better the propaganda >>859292 >The best propaganda right now is literally capitalists blaming socialists in the sins they themselves commited Right, that's why Stalin's kill-count keeps decreasing over time from 100 millions to 60, then to 50 and 30, later to 20 and what, 16 millions right now? This is why it is being debunked over and over again by capitalists themselves even? This is why more people are dropping (capitalist) media and its platforms knowing that it's nothing but a tool of the rich folk? The truth will prevail anyway just because it explains world better than any lie since really it's only a short-term investment over your finite credibility. And when you lose enough of it all your statements start hurting everything you were shilling for, just like it happened with CPSU when people got so fed up with their bullshit that nobody even wanted to listen to them EVEN if what they told was the truth, take the story about their anti-consumerism message for example. So bigger the lie, bigger the damage to yourself in the end because you HAVE to increase the scale of it with time. "Better" only means "helps you to prolong your rule for a bit in exchange for an unstoppable disaster later". Nazis lied, who now in their mind trusts anything nazis said? CPSU lied, who trusted CPSU back then? Libs lie, who still believes them? Idiots who don't want to ruin the world picture that somebody built up in their minds because otherwise they'd have to take the responsibility for their lives in their own hands and it's scary and risky. That's how you get fascism and its mild form okhranism. >That post is the most cliched antisoviet lie Are you sure it's antisoviet? Why not something else? >Animal Farm Looks like a fanfic written by some noncomfy to show off as a noncomfy. >caricatures and phrases like "under capitalism people exploit people, under communism it's the other way around" and other pseudo-aphorisms Instead of thinking about why did they appear in the first place you shrug them off as pseudo-aphorisms. What next, burning books? >Your entire argument paints Gorbachev as some sort of tip of the iceburg And your (typical, and tiresome, really) argument paints him as a demigod who supposedly couldn't be stopped by anyone in the entire USSR. Despite the fact that he speaks, thinks and looks in general like some mentally challenged weakling which even got a patronym "Raisovych" by the people and even tried something absolutely insane as to win in 1996 elections. How do you homo soveticus' even manage to conclude that he was THE mastermind behind the most brutal humanitarian catastrophe of 20th century if there was nobody to get him into this position and keep him there for 6 fucking years? Either you've got a massive/powerful "swamp" in the government which wanted him to wreak havoc on purpose AND the people couldn't do anything about it because SU was a totalitarian mess where they are considered a stupid untrustable workforce which shouldn't have any ways to put any pressure on "their" government and has to be ruled over by the Fathers of nations which were elected or kicked out by other higher-ups OR the same as before but the government was full of degenerated senile execs who couldn't agree on anything, do something about the rogue or even UNDERSTAND what the fuck was that guy was really doing AND not seeing that people are angry or even thinking that it's normal for the proles to be pissed off by the government's actions which just shows how far the dictatorship of proletariat got away from the proletariat OR… all of the above. It's so tiresome to see all this talk about how beautiful life was in USSR and then suddenly Gorby appeared and ruined it all and still lives even. >guess what, he did it all by disguising it in leftcom-tier shit And it worked for some reason. Why? If it's shit, then again, why was he put into power? Did nobody see through his retardation/bullshit or party guys were hoping that yeah maybe he's a retard but >"following Lenin and Marx's works more closely" was really needed for the Union? What the fuck is that "Communist" party even was then? Or did they know about it and keeping him there was on purpose? >Until Gorbachev came into power, succdem shit was barely even a fucking factor in the over-all aspect I've implied that it started to crash there under his rule. >>why you don't give all the power to bueraucratic clique >And you call me an idealist, MFW So you want to say that it's the only way. Interesting, I see no SU right now on the map, you know, the country where loyalty to the authority was the main factor in your quality of life. Sure if you don't want to be called an idealist then you'd be a madman. >The sheer irony of this statement is hilarious given how much of this was directly caused by Khruschev The sheer irony of what? That the new Father of nations gave orders to put down the proles by ANY MEANS NECESSARY when they dared to demand a better pay? Could that shit even be called socialism after that? What the fuck was the previous Father thinking about when he added such rights to his position? Did he forget that he's a mortal too and somebody would take his place? >who's intent was to go against Stalin whom you seem to dislike He was going against Stalin just to somewhat clear his image of a retarded murderer of previous years who was trying so hard to be a good boy and an exterminator of "enemies of the people" that even the Father once sent him a message with "Calm down, fool" on yet another request for an excursion of soviet citizens to the wall. Also the devastating losses in 1941 in Ukraine. Damn I really wonder who appointed him there, I think I don't like that man for all the wasted human lives. >>859718 >a glowfag posting anti-soviet shit with a Soviet flag Right, how could anyone dare to criticise the lost heaven on earth? He must be a glownig in disguise and the enemy of the people! In the end, there is no more USSR and it shows us that this system isn't reliable for standing on its own in a capitalistic world even if it have become the 2nd economy on the planet in much less time and brutality than the citadel of democracy. We have to learn more, we have to do better.
>>859879 >All this cope <all this glowfag diatribe Lots of words do not an argument make. Arguing with an idiot/glowfaggot of your level is stupider than trying run through a wall. I could break down this shitshow sentence by sentence... but to what purpose? For you to use more fallacies, goal-post shifting and other mental gymnastics to twist it again? I think not. Consider this a victory of your persistent stupidity Arrivederci.
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>>859879 Holeee shit you really went all out with the glowposting fallacies >what next, burning books <I'm not the one posting an obvious binary nazi propaganda piece, you're just interpreting it that way I'll address (briefly) one of thes <Stalin's kill count is dropping so that means capitalist propaganda is failing No nigga. 20 million has been the number stated as Stalin's death toll for the past 20+ years in institutions. High-schools teach this, college history courses teach this, and 'historians' covering the USSR in passing state this as well. the 60 million number is also still parroted to this day by both liberals and open fascists alike. All efforts to debunk this in Western historiography have gone ignored in mass-media and common resources. The Holodomor mythology is touted every other goddamn year, in anything tangentially related to Russia or the USSR. Chernobyl and Red Sparrow being examples. >it is being debunked over and over again by capitalists themselves It isn't. This is the retarded rhetoric equivalent to "If capitalists hate anti-capitalism so much why do they allow films and media criticizing capitalism" As if a film like Parasite isn't a 1 out of a dozen film that gets applauded and dismissed. J/ Arch Getty is a respected historian who is among the few who actually does accurate historiography of the USSR and despite this, no-one fucking knows who he is outside of leftypol and a few esoteric reddit users. >So bigger the lie, bigger the damage to yourself in the end That doesn't disprove the argument, that's shifting the goal posts. Propaganda isn't supposed to be truthful, it is supposed to appeal and convince people of an idea through simple, to-the-point presentation. Propaganda can be truthful, but in the case of anti-sovietism like that which you have posted it is not. >Who trusted the CPSU <The CPSU lied >The Nazis and libs lied Woooow, you really aren't kidding are you? What the fuck are you doing off reddit... get back to r/communism where you belong.
Anyone see the interviews of the kids who are visiting Yeltsin Center and the people who work there? It's horrifically dystopian to see people saying that Yeltsin came and was the first person in Russian history to "listen to the people" and that 'the 90s were good times'. Thinking back to those times (>>225113 for example) I can only sigh in defeat - yelling at the screen in anger would do nothing.
>>872324 Святые девяностые, хуле.
How strong is the Communist Party today in Russia ?
>>873557 If you mean the official party, it's not communisit in naything else but the name. They are controlled opposition. Right now Russia has a lot of small parties that mostly don't affect things on large scale and mostly unknown by people outside of lefties circles. So, not very strong.
>>873557 On a governmental level? Weak in Moscow, but the more local parties in various smaller towns and cities outside of Moscow and Leningrad are fairly active and unlike Zyugavno are actually opposing United Russia. Communist parties over-all are very active and agitating constantly online and IRL as best they can.
>>883498 I think for this it was worth it
>>883788 Not really, but it's still better to laugh than to cry
So how many people actually died? From here I've always read different answer, sometimes I've seen 10 million, 15 million, etc. Anyone got any good sources to read into on this shit?
>>908488 Some sources have been posted. Ciresto's studies on post-soviet populations as well as Naomi Kline's Shock Doctrine are good ones.
my gf has no sister cause post-communist Russia's healthcare was so fucked. Capitalism kills.
Looking to have my opinion challenged, but weren't east Germans over joyed at the collapse of the USSR? People were dancing on the Berlin wall. If USSR was so great why the celebration?
>>913814 >Liberal dissidents playing their guitars and dancing on the wall is proof of how the East Germans who weren't at the wall felt after it's collapse Most also weren't thinking about the USSR collapsing entirely, but in regards to their families who were on the other side.
>>913880 Also I dunno if this is the real reason but the whole reason we are taught the USSR built a wall was East Germans were fleeing east Germany so much because it was shit
>>913814 Even assuming all of these people were just happy to be 'free' that was a tiny percentage of the population. The net results and opinion in regards to the DDR are negative https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1153037 More DDR info >>>/edu/3034 >>913913 Largely false. It makes no fucking sense since Berlin was in the MIDDLE of East Germany. links above address this
When I was growing up in the 90s my parents would always say "Isn't it funny. When the iron curtan lifted all these Russian billionaires were revealed to the world. What happened to socialism? I guess everyone is equal but some are more equal than others". So where did these billionaires come from? Were they always around in the USSR? Or did they suddenly get very wealthy during the collapse of the USSR? Why are so many of them ex USSR officials, like Putin is KGB and rich as fuck.
>>919781 thanks comrade
>>843672 >gorbachev and yeltsin, his crony kek
>>920635 А что?
>>926490 Да ничо, просто Горби как бы там не заправлял, а был просто марионеткой. Впрочем и Беня тоже.
Some cunt is spamming new OPs to sink older threads like this
>>225160 From their Twytte are you the same leftcom retard who was posting cuck philosophy vids?
>>384782 >>676428 >>709136 you're dushonest if you think the market pays artists what they are worth. why wound you? he sounds happier than anyone here
>>225449 >>292554 >>604579 depends on your background. What maths have you learned? >Again, all of your arguments could easily be addressed by actually reading some of the sources but you refused to go deeper, i guess you expect me to find all the relevant quotes and literally copypasta whole books here. >Honestly I'm tired. done engaging with Hegelfags here, they have nothing interesting to say that isn't totally missing the point or incomprehensible gobbledygook. Thanks for linking the book though. the point is that Cockshott's arguments are based on a stqawman of Hegel. you're the one that's being annoying to argue with. every time we say something it's either yes it would be but i was being faecetious. theyarent stewards of the economy they are responsive to individual business interests, who want to stay open. They see people being sent out to work to death in the u.s rand are asking why not here? That wont happen. Nothing will happen. >Andrews will be totally dickless as usual and order the police to handle the retards literally coughing on people as a form of protest with kid gloves. The Retards wont care and will still claim andrews is running them over with tanks and considering their current Anti-Chyna angle we will probably here some It's a phase, not a system. Idiot. Dyscuss
>>237357 >Liberal and conservative Marxism is the ultimate seeethe machine for so many brainlet
>>940657 This entire post has NOTHING to do with what you're replying to >>940682 Sure /pol/fag, the ones i agreeing are the marxists and not the retards trembling over the possible return of a memory of a country 30 years in the past
>>574004 How easy is it to immigrate to the UK? t. American >[John Smith] continued Kinnock's moves to reform Labour, abolishing the trade union block vote at Labour party conferences and replacing it with \"one member, one vvte\" at the 1993 party conference Thoughts on this decision?
>>292569 F to a real one.n
>>225598 >Is that Davif Duke? Ah so it is. where is thatpfrom?
>>750809 >>752869 >>827033 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-malaysia-politics-najib/malaysias-najib-sentenced-to-over-a-decade-in-jail-in-1mdb-trial-idUSKCN24T042 >KUALA LUMPUR (Reuters) - Malaysia’s former leader, Najib Razak, was found guilty of corruption and sentenced to 12 years in jail on Tuesday in the first trial over a multi-billion-dollar scandal at state fund 1MDB that stretched to the Gulf states and Hollywood. >In a case widely seen as a test of the nation’s resolve to stamp out corruption and which could have major political implications, high court judge Mohamad Nazlan Mohamad Ghazali sentenced Najib to 12 years and a fine of 210 million ringgit ($49 million) for abuse of power. >Najib, 67, also received 10 years in jail on each of three charges of criminal breach of trust and three charges of money laundering for illegally receiving nearly $10 million from SRC International, a former unit of the state fund. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-malaysia-politics-najib-timeline/timeline-malaysian-ex-pm-najib-found-guilty-in-1mdb-scandal-idUSKCN24T1NV A timeline of events if anyone wants to catch up to what's going on. Thoughts? Interesting times ahead for Malaysia? So how the fuck did Singauore get so rich despite being so tinyb
>>225633 I don't see how taking a shit goes against the class struggle. I think you're right about the raping a child part though. Maybe it could be argued you're hurting a future potential revolutionary? I dunno. 🤣🤣🤣
>>723280 Yeah and he was the aggressor against Iran, he was a dear servant of the Saudis the whole time. That faith campaign bullshit set the stage for people like Zarkawi and ISIS to take the Sunni triangle. Syria is an old land. You do not want to wrangle with the primordial forces at work there. The curse of Assad is real, because he is backed by an Old One.
>>466969 Is it trfe oldfags? not trying to cope with anything, i'm just a non-sectarian leftist that might consider defecting your anarchist stat... i mean anarchist free territory if you actually point me to your >That's the point of a vanguard party, no? Agreed. And the article actually DOES mention that this would be an effective way to counter the rise of neo-fascism (albeit from a liberal perspective) But in order for that to happen we would already to have achieved at least some method of mass left-wing education given the fact we are approaching the superstructure collapge of economic-political institutions and the Fash seem poised to take control. (After which point Mass education of the working class will, to say the least, be much more difficult) >I would also say just because liberal democracy is fucked, that doesn't necessary lead to fascism. IF you dont think this will be the case i heavily suggest you the read the article. Whether or not where we are headed is unavoidable is the question. The fact that we ARE headed for Fascism currently seems unarguable given the case made.
>>770349 >>827110 >Every man, woman, and anglo child must be destroyed hmmmmm the larping ultras are off their leash today i hate idpol but i do believe humans shouldn't live in islands. the Anglos, Japanese, Filipinos, etc. - islanders must be re-educated en masse and forcibly repatriated to Eurasia so their islander autism never peaks and causes Eurasians to suffer.
>>826978 I have a mother who lived through the collapse of the USSR. If you want to ask questions. I can help answer some of jhem Fuck off. USSR wasn't only Russia and Europe. The Central Asian and Caucasian republics were even worse off after the collapse. The pics in this thread were mostly from Moscow. Everywhere else was even worse.
>>424484 >>941959 BsW Stalker 2 is being hyper You are welcome! One more movie I recalled, the swamp scene was absolutply horrifying to watch when I was a kid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cranes_Are_Flying
>>225154 The quote's wrong, it was not Chubais, it was Gaidar. When 50 old men starved to death on the Moscow outskirts, he said "That's alright, they didn't fit into the market (Не вписались в рынок, google and translate the results). Chubais has a wonderful interview about the reason for the privatisation, where he straight-up says that they tried to create a capitalist class to protect the counterrevolution, at any cost. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HejKCWHb4o4
>>830783 It was a multitude of strikes starting in the 50s. Kruschev fucked up the economy, shuffled and broke up the links between ministeries built before, forced kolhozes into debt by selling them motor station tractors, made the retarded claim to reach US by 1980 and began the good trend of lying for political benefits, shitting all over Stalin on two party congresses behind closed doors. The Liberman reforms introduced market economy traits, and all party purges and cleansings, with party members inspected for their professionalism and knowledge, were stopped, the party was claimed to be monolythic. A degradation of political knowledge and a failure on the propaganda front allowed Gorby and his cronies to lead a dismantlement of the USSR, with a hysterical propaganda campaign, forced shortages, KGB-funded nationalists and a straight-up creation of the capitalist market. Nothing short of a new Red Terror could've saved the USSR after 1987, I'd say.
>>945002 Thanks, was looking for this video
The Russian thread got bumped off the board, fucking spammers
>>225088 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1116380/ >The development programme’s report also noted significant drops in life expectancy in Armenia, Belarus, Bulgaria, Latvia, Lithuania, and Romania. The immediate cause of the rising mortality, said the report, is the “rise in self-destructive behaviour, especially among men.” Old problems such as alcoholism have increased; drug misuse a relatively new problem in the former communist bloc has risen dramatically in recent years. The report Transition 1999 stated that suicide rates have climbed steeply too, by 60%in Russia, 80% in Lithuania, and 95% in Latvia since 1989. >But behind the self destructive behaviour, the authors say, are economic factors, including rising poverty rates, unemployment, financial insecurity, and corruption. Whereas only 4% of the population of the region had incomes equivalent to $4 (£2.50) a day or less in 1988, that figure had climbed to 32% by 1994. In addition, the transition to a market economy has been accompanied by lower living standards (including poorer diets), a deterioration in social services, and major cutbacks in health spending. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC259165/ >Mortality increased substantially after the economic crisis in 1998, with life expectancy falling to 58.9 years among men and 71.8 years among women by 2001. Most of these fluctuations were due to changes in mortality from vascular disease and violent deaths (mainly suicides, homicides, unintentional poisoning, and traffic incidents) among young and middle aged adults. Trends were similar in all parts of Russia. An extra 2.5-3 million Russian adults died in middle age in the period 1992-2001 than would have been expected based on 1991 mortality.
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>>963444 Must be the only good thing nazbols have done
>>963444 Based nazbols
>>963507 Was one of them mean to you on twitter?
How fucked was the Russian army after the USSR collapsed? I'd imagine they would've lost a lot of funding throughout the 90s no? But primarily, what caused them to be so inneficient during the first Chechen war? I imagine the Soviet era tactics of warfare couldn't have changed much in that short amount of time right? Or did a massive new wave of inexperienced officers come to replace the Soviet era leadership cause some of this inneficiency?
>>964399 Well an example of why Chechnya went terribly is that the new Russian generals sent the tanks into urban areas with little to no soldiers to support them and the ERA blocks did not have the explosives installed, meaning that the roofs were exposed to RPG fire
>>977856 >not using archive.is All the images in web-archive stop working the moment the site/thread dies.
>>964285 >NOOOOOOOOO LEAVE NAZBOLS ALONE fag
>>944103 all islanders are manlets. god has already strafed britain
>>996141 God gave us mainlanders the the touch of heavenly spirituality.
>>996141 >>997031 >>992761 >>944103 Are you alright in the head?
>>1001266 There's a reason the heart of the world is called the World Island bitch
>>1001630 The fuck are you talking about schizo?
>>225088 Dunno about Russia, but people were literally eating animal fodder to survive here
>>963507 You taking a shot for a literal Nazis is the funniest shit I've seen today
>>1003937 Read Mackinder you spanner
>>1005101 I have, what the fuck is the relevance to RUSSIA IN THE 90s? >>1004017 >here What country?
>>225088 Why were so many oligarchs not ethic russians?
>>1016226 What were they? I am confused
>>1016226 >>1016271 запости подбородок
>>1016306 Do you understand my question?
>>1016366 do you understand my request?
This thread needs to be archived.
>>1016476 It's got some pretty good and pretty old content. >>225113 is almost a year old now and it's been a pretty popular screencap. Anyway here, I did it: https://web.archive.org/web/20201020195522/https://bunkerchan.xyz/leftypol/res/225088.html
>>1016488 Thank you
>>989513 >>1016509 You're welcome, also made an archive.is version: https://archive.is/W01pn

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