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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion. Join the Matrix: https://matrix.to/#/+leftychat:matrix.org Visit the Booru: https://lefty.booru.org/

Sup ML’s, can you redpill me? Anonymous 11/18/2020 (Wed) 02:39:36 No. 1146994
I’m a libertarian socialist and I’m really interested in learning more about these authoritarian states, such as common misconceptions and cool facts about them that could help me defend these states in a debate. >What are the core beliefs of ML? >Is china capitalist? Why do they have corporations and billionaires? >Was life under the USSR as bad as people say it is? (working conditions, egalitarianism, etc.) >Are the “kill counts” for socialist “dictators” all blown out of proportion and fake? >Was the USSR imperialist? I’d also really appreciate some books and shit I could read, I’m already reading some Lenin stuff
>>1147479 >Defends planning >Defends vanguard party >States the need for revolution (at least in the right situations) This seems a lot like an Ml to me
>>1147493 >>1147500 Nobody not trolling is this retarded so just stop doing it.
>>1147511 >Taking your politics from Wikipedia Beyond parody
>>1147458 It’s nice to know that being a “China hawk” means pointing out the obvious facts that modern China is a Capitalist country and that the ideology of its “Communist” party is significantly closer to Mussolini-style Fascism (not the highly radicalized Nazi variety) then even the most revisionist Marxism-Leninism (Titoist Yugoslavia looks like pure Socialism compared to the Neoliberal hellhole that is Dengist China) as seen by the fact that the combination of Corporatist/State Capitalist economics, Class collaborationism, a One-party state, and extreme Nationalism are Classic hallmarks of Fascist ideology. It’s also worth noting that a war with China would never happen due to the fact that Dengist China is a massive sweatshop for U$ corporation and it’s “New Cold War” with the U$ is blatantly Fake wrestling to distract and control the people’s of both countries (the same can be said of Putin’s Russia as well). From a Anti-Revisionist Marxist-Leninist perspective it is a shame their will never be a war between the U$ and China/Russia because that is the only way their will ever be the right material conditions for a successful Socialist revolution in the 21st century.
>>1147599 >I've heard though that local governments [in the USSR] were generally more democratic than than the national government naturally, as it's easier to do so on a local level when we're looking at what was literally the BIGGEST country on earth, which was nowhere near the level of technological and general development (they were semi-feudal and war torn before the 20s-30s, and also WWII) to have a "more democratic" national government. the fact that this even needs to be explained—why the nature of the USSR necessitated a strong central government—demonstrates both people's inability to view things outside of abstractions not bound by material circumstance, and also general not knowing history as the soviets attempted to decentralise and "democratise" more in the 50s-60s and it caused more problems than it fixed (sovnarkhoz.) it's not like the USSR was just some big entity that never tried working outside its box, and it wouldn't hurt for its leftist detractors to use their eyes and see "oh wow so the things i dictate a country do to be more or actually socialist was barely feasible oops." >>1147688 market socialist countries still had planning. "planning" does not equal having a sole central organ like gosplan figuring the economy out; there can be several plans with various levels of importance (i.e. certain industries are prioritised and therefore must be followed closer, whereas "less important" plans are followed more loosely) as seen in yugoslavia. hungary can be considered "market socialist" at least during the NEM period but they had more of a soviet-style central plan, and china in the 80s... i don't know much about, but i assume they weren't on the level of decentralisation as yugoslavia following the 74 constitution.
>>1147447 So the goal is global socialism and then they can advance into communism? I mean that makes sense bc if you do it in only one country, everyone else would try to fuck with you
>>1147269 >I wouldn't call China capitalist. They allow a wealthy class to exist under tight supervision and with the expectation that they provide some benefit to the state So what are they exactly? They have a capitalist economy, capitalist wage labor, finance capital being ever more dominant which create pressure for imperialism and rent seeking capitalist in landlords. Their private sector this year for the first time can go in reverse and buy out state provincial businesses bankrupted by the pandemic. With this rate if they aren’t capitalist now they would be in a few short years.
>>1147483 >The people of Hungary in 1956 never """allied""" with the USSR. """People""" don't ally with anything, governments representing people do. This is why Nagy had to go. He was awaiting Western (i.e. capitalist) help. In a world torn to two between a capitalist and communist bloc you have to be able to chose your side, and in the last instance you'll be either a facilitator of one or the other. >They were forced to submit to the USSR's will. They were "forced to submit" to their own government's "will" which fully supported the USSR's intervention. >The Hungarian revolutionaries weren't liberals by the way. Some of them actually were. Some of them were reform-communists, some open reactionaries, some just literal fucking dumb kids, etc.
>>1147573 Never fucking read Lacan, unless you just want to learn how to fuck better. Any other application is folly
>>1147547 A better question: Is she an Elf? >She has long and kind of pointed ears. >She has a prominent nose. >She has big eyes (how else would elves be such consistently accurate bowmen?). >She has somewhat prominent canines (elves are mostly carnivorous hunters). >She has an otherworldly/ethereal type of physical beauty. And: >She hasn't aged at all in the past decade (elves have lifespans of multiple centuries, an extremely rare few of them are even said to be immortal).
>>1146994 >Was life under the USSR as bad as people say it is? (working conditions, egalitarianism, etc.) Read the following: https://gowans.blog/2015/07/19/submitting-to-moral-blackmail-kristen-ghodsees-the-left-side-of-history/ https://gowans.blog/2013/12/23/seven-myths-about-the-ussr/ https://gowans.blog/2012/12/21/do-publicly-owned-planned-economies-work/ https://gowans.blog/2011/12/20/we-lived-better-then/ https://gowans.blog/2011/10/30/social-democracy-soviet-socialism-and-the-bottom-99-percent/ https://gowans.blog/2010/05/09/a-failed-systems-failed-promises/ https://gowans.blog/2009/10/25/democracy-east-germany-and-the-berlin-wall/ >Are the “kill counts” for socialist “dictators” all blown out of proportion and fake? Specifically with respect to Stalin, I recommend you read the following: http://centerforaninformedamerica.com/newsletter-38/ >>1147970 >Never fucking read Lacan, unless you just want to learn how to fuck better. Redpill me on how reading this obscure French psychoanalyst will help me fuck better. Which book(s) of his are most helpful for this specific purpose? He probably wrote a ton of books, I'm guessing.
>>1147970 What? The whole point of Freud and Lacan is to take all the fun out of sex
>>1147807 >a One-party state So you want multi-party liberal democracy. You're with the liberals, meaning your point of view is necessarily going to be oppressed in any proletarian led revolution. If you just want another bourgeois revolution (an idiotic fantasy btw) you would fit in much better on /pol/.
>>1147517 her political opinions are a massive turnoff
>>1147447 why is it you got everything about China wrong...
>shoeonthehead pleb tier taste on e girls
>>1147807 >Dengist China is a massive sweatshop for the US Why is it everywhere you go you have white liberals like this talk about China as if they know everything about no. No China isnt one giant sweatshop for the US. No China isn't a capitalist state with a Communist Party ruling over it that pretends to he communist to "fool the proles", which is honestly the dumbest thing I've ever fucking read, you dont promote the study of Marxism Leninism literally everywhere in your country and decide to be a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie anyway, Chinese people aren't mindless drones that need people to tell them what the fuck they're doing. And also your understanding of fascism is apparently just class collaboration, when Mao quite literally promoted unifying with the national bourgeoisie in order to buikd China, but hey you know everything, China is a super hyper capitalist state pretending to be socialist, because that's smart. It's also one big sweatshop where they have to kiss a picture of Xi everyday before slaving away for 5 cents a day
>>1152698 Then explain this "progressively liberalizing" business in the RCEP they're preparing to sign, and how foreign direct investment isn't intrinsically bourgeois and isn't meant to lead to broad private property rights.
>>1152998 Probably because China needs trade with the outside world to survive Now of course we all know, and I dont deny it, that China isn't a traditional socialist country ala USSR, but you also can't deny that China can somehow survive on its own without those trade deals
>>1153055 >Probably because China needs trade with the outside world to survive Why? What exactly does China need that it does not have?
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>>1153055 >China wasn't trading with the outside world before Is that really the party line? <promotion, protection, facilitation, and liberalisation of investment How can that not mean private property? You do understand that's what liberal means, right?
>>1147022 I think OP >>1146994 literally is shoe0nhead. Shoe describes herself as a libertarian socialist (just like the OP does), the OP pic is literally her face edited onto a Soviet sniper women, and the OP is asking for info that would help defend socialist states in a debate (presumably with the liberals/right-wingers that shoe gets into debates with on youtube or twitter or wherever).
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>>1153233 It's the only explanation that makes any sense.
>>1153237 right, because stealth-promoting yourself while pretending to be just another random anon simping on an imageboard is totally out of the question
>>1153233 Shoe calls herself a social libertarian which is basically libertarianism but with healthcare and free education. A libertarian socialist is basically just like an anarchist
>>1147408 Seconding this one. It's a classic. Another good one to check out is "Friendly Feudalism", which exposes many of the myths surrounding feudal Tibet before and during Communist Chinese intervention. http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html
>>1153070 You do realize that a large part of China is still living in awful conditions
>>1147269 revisionist
>>1147430 always has been
>>1147550 sending (shitty) pics of your cock is not flirting
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an earlier post here mentioned talking points. i have a few things to make talking points out of fascist economics were created by a liberal homosexual. make them fully understand this by calling them fagscists. beyond that the word nigsoc does wonders to nazis when they're called it. they just break into mindless agreeing. the kind of people that tell you you are vlid are generally insecure in their own masculinity so telling them they will never be a real man and will forever remain chuds that seems to help as well. more subtly on 4chan we could run demoralization campaigns blackpilling them on one thing after another until eventually suicide seems reasonable. then it just takes a little tap and off the cliff they go. post further ideas in the comments. advanced punction and grammer avoided for twofold reasons first being that i dont wanna be identified and the second namely being that i dont speak english.
>>1147038 >reading
>>1152603 I support One-Party states if that “One party” is a Marxist-Leninist party overseeing a Dictatorship of the Proletariat with a Socialist Mode of Production (Planned Socialist Economic system) like in the former USSR, former Eastern Bloc states, Maoist China, Hoxhaist Albania, and in modern Cuba and the DPRK. I oppose One-Party states where the “One-Party” is a Fascist Party overseeing a Dictatorship of Bourgeoise with a Capitalist Mode of Production (Market Capitalist Economic system) hiding behind Marxist-Leninist aesthetics like in modern China.
>>1155271 Based
>>1147056 do anything but this
>>1155271 Again you're so fucking retarded to believe the liberal lie that the CPC is a fascist fucking party and that they're somehow a dictatorship of bourgeoisie A dictatorship of the bourgeoisie would've let the Jack Ma deal go without intervening Fucking learn what you're talking about before you comment on something
>>1155271 Also again, so retarded to belive that the chinese people are submissive fucks who can't think for themselves Imagine a "fascist" party promoting the study of Marxism and Leninism to trick the proles Most retarded shit I ever read unironically kill yourself
>>1147045 I disagree
>>1146994 >I’d also really appreciate some books and shit I could read, I’m already reading some Lenin stuff You should check out Stalin's "Foundations of Leninism" and "Dialetical and Historial Materialism". "On Contradiction" by Mao Zedong. Enver Hoxha's works such as "Reject the revisionist thesis of the 20th congress" and "Imperialism and the revolution". While not necessarily Leninist, Rosa Lxemburg's works such as "Social Reform or Revolution?" are important. And watch Hakim's series on book recommendations if you want to see more books (Here's the first part of that series https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwP1Wn1_rAs there's six parts in the series as of now). Oh and of course read Marx and Engels.
>>1152698 >private property, commodity production, wage-slavery, billionaires >not capitalist ok
>>1157175 you didn't read anything
>>1156616 >you're just dumb and stupid!! <no arguments made Back to /r/sino with you, faggotron.
>>1152603 Multi-party democracy =/= liberal democracy you niggtard
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>>1152603 >>1159304 Electoral politics = oligarchy, you blithering idiots
>>1147045 I'm not a simp but I always thought she was a qt
>>1159302 What kind of argument can be made when the OP never made one He called China fascist based off of class collaboration with the national bourgeoisie Was fucking Mao a fascist retard
>>1163601 Mao presided over a Socialist mode of production, which is a Planned Socialist economic system with State-ownership of the means of production and exchange (State-ownership of large and medium sized companies with no Stock exchanges) along with a massive Safety-net (Free Housing, Free Healthcare, Free Education, Job Guarantee, etc.) with a Dictatorship of the proletariat (One-Party Marxist-Leninist state). Dengist China has a Capitalist mode of production, which is a Market Capitalist economic system with Private-ownership of the means of production and exchange (Private Multinational corporations combined with SOEs that have shares traded on Stock exchanges) and a nonexistent Safety-net (The Maoist-era “Iron rice bowl” was completely privatized in the 1990s), with a Dictatorship of the Bourgeoise (a One-party state in which the ruling “Communist” party serves the interest of the Bourgeoise). By definition, a One-party state with a Planned Socialist economic system is a Socialist Dictatorship of the proletariat, a One-party state with a Market Capitalist Economic system is a Fascist Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie, and a Multi-party state with a Market Capitalist economic system is a Liberal Dictatorship of the Bourgeoise.
>>1165403 Any response to my Analysis?

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