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Anonymous 10/18/2020 (Sun) 07:41:33 No. 1011534
Radical Social Democracy works, and it works better than any centrally planned system ever has. I've never been able to find a genuinely convincing argument in favour of socialism over social-democracy. Nationalisation of key industries, a robust welfare state, and strong unions in a largely market capitalist economy solve every problem you lot look to communism for.
>>1011860 Extremely based
>>1011861 >>1011864 That anon isn't even a socdem he's just baiting.
>>1011865 Ok retard I'll spell it out for you. The holodomor is a hoax propagated by Nazis in both your shithole country and in Ukraine. The same people who rounded up jews in the USSR to be sent off to die. >I mean, anarchism sounds nice, but the political climate in my country isn't really conducive to it right now. So social democracy will do for now. This nicely sums up both your complete theoretical ignorance as well as your complete inability to see how your pathetic movement isn't achieving anything and is being subsumed into the imperialist hegemony. >I'm sure the Nazis cured a couple of diseases in their camps too. Does that invalidate all of the atrocities committed? Oh, this has to be bait right? Not only comparing socialists to nazis but saying the nazis would treat people they put in concentration camps?
Social democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism.
>>1011865 >I'm sure the Nazis cured a couple of diseases in their camps too Ah yes, im sure they cured diseases in their extermination camps
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>>1011873 based
>>1011879 what point are you making here
Look at this amazing meme I found on r/sandersforpresident fellow radical leftists. :) Remember to vote for Biden so we can have chairman sanders for the health subcommittee.
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>>1011534 >Radical social democracy works Take a fucking look at what happened in Bolivia and tell me revolution isn't needed.
>>1011880 no point, radio.
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>>1011594 The media is a thing that exists. >>1011607 >Not liquidating our enemies <More desirable >>1011622 (picrel)
>>1011865 >I'm sure the Nazis cured a couple of diseases in their camps too. Yes they did treat the people who's illness made them unfit for working. But if diesease was too grave or required too much effort, then you were killed or experimented on. Cancer was a death sentence there. >>1011874 >extermination camps You had literal death camps like Treblinka and work camps like Madhausen. This is important cause you could organise yourself some treatment in the latter >>1011868 >the nazis would treat people they put in concentration camps? Primary role od medics was to prevent dieseases and stuff like lice from spreading. Treatment was secondary and was mostly about letting people lay in bed for a week before going back to work.
>>1011598 >I'm not a socialist, I'm a social democrat. then you are not radical socdem, lmao. you should read something about history of social democracy before using big boy words
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>state good corporations bad succdems are literally reverse lolberts. disgraceful.
>>1011534 obvious bait, OP is a faggot and a liberal
>>1011925 t. anarkiddie
>>1011925 >State good >Socdem I'd say more like "Paper in ballot good"
>>1012013 communism and state don't mix though.
>>1011534 Central planning worked well enough in the USSR and today we have far better tools to carry it out.
>>1011534 I don't know how you can say "it works" when Jeremy Corbyn is a prime example of why it doesn't. If the government don't want you in power, they can make sure you don't get into power. Corbyn's campaign was literally sabotaged by both the media and the party and the military even threatened a coup.
>>1011868 >Ok retard I'll spell it out for you. The holodomor is a hoax propagated by Nazis in both your shithole country and in Ukraine. The same people who rounded up jews in the USSR to be sent off to die. It isn't just Nazis that say the Holodomor was a real thing. Pretty much every reputable historian I know of says it was a real thing. The only major point of contention I know of was whether or not it was deliberate and thus a genocide. >This nicely sums up both your complete theoretical ignorance as well as your complete inability to see how your pathetic movement isn't achieving anything and is being subsumed into the imperialist hegemony. At least socdems and demsocs are actually building multi-tendency leftist mass-movement in my country. The dozen or so communist parties are busy larping as revolutionaries while demsocs are actually getting people elected and making an impact on our politics. >Oh, this has to be bait right? Not only comparing socialists to nazis but saying the nazis would treat people they put in concentration camps? Firstly, you have to recognize that "of the 18 million who were sent to the Gulag from 1930 to 1953, roughly 1.5 to 1.7 million perished there or as a result of their detention". Secondly, I will admit that I did some digging and could not find any specific instances of Nazis curing any diseases, so I'll give you that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag
>>1011884 Revolutions get coup'd and sabotaged too. Just look at Burkina Faso under Thomas Sankara.
>>1012162 >If the government don't want you in power, they can make sure you don't get into power. Corbyn's campaign was literally sabotaged by both the media and the party and the military even threatened a coup. The same shit would happen to a revolution you know. Also, tell me more about how much more success revolutionary movements have had in the UK than Jeremy Corbyn's socdem movment.
>>1011884 Morales was democratically re-elected. He was ousted via a foreign coup. I fail to see how Bolivia proves your point.
>>1011603 >moves out of the country yeah ok
>>1012028 That's some tough talk form someone with a socdem/demsoc party flag
>>1012228 >He was ousted via a foreign coup. >I fail to see how Bolivia proves your point. yeah I wonder whats the point mmm
>>1012222 >Pretty much every reputable historian I know of says it was a real thing. The only major point of contention I know of was whether or not it was deliberate and thus a genocide. yes exactly it happened and it's irrelevant > The dozen or so communist parties are busy larping as revolutionaries while demsocs are actually getting people elected and making an impact on our politics. omg they are vooting and participating in the status quo how heroic
>>1011555 >surplus value keeps being extracted Cool, people are living well, why should I care moralfag? Evo Morales is more of a SocDem than a socialist yet you guys simp for him because he has this commie aesthetic. Grow a fucking spine. >>1011884 Open a fucking history book and find out what happened with the communist countries. What do y'all have nowadays? DPRK and Cuba and that's it.And even then half of you (leftcoms, maoists, trots) do not consider this places actual existing socialism.
>>1011617 >The tendency of the rate of profit to fall has never even been documented, just theorised by economists. uhhh. no there empirical evidence
>>1011603 are you aware of any of history since the 1970s and onwards?
>>1011534 >social democracy >central planned you assume it has to be either of these two
>>1011809 Based answer >If social democracy is so great, why have all social democracies fallen from grace? as a britbong this resonates deeply in my soul
why do socdems think they can build a bridge between bourgeoise and proletariats that will never be burned by opposing class interests?
>>1012425 I'm not anti-rev but your case would make sense if the coup wasn't backed by the biggest of western imperialist powers.
>>1011534 I bet op worships nords. what a faggot.
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>This is what succdems actually believe
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>>1012483 >The social-democrats consider the capitalist state as a state above classes, as an interpreter and champion of the interests of society as a whole, they are opposed to breaking up the old bourgeois state machine, they are opposed to the dictatorship of the proletariat, which, according to them, is the negation of democracy, is a totalitarian rule and so on and so forth. And the revisionists spread the illusions that the capitalist state may change its class nature, that it may become a state that will express not only the interests of the bourgeoisie but also those of the proletariat and of the laboring masses, they say that Lenin's thesis on the indispensability of breaking up the bourgeois state apparatus must be modified, that the dictatorship of the proletariat is an outdated idea, or, at most, suitable only for backward countries, that it may take not only various forms but also quite a different content. Social democrats and fascists have a strangely similar view of the state
>>1012483 They aren't Marxists
>>1011534 In the real world self described Social Democratic parties just act as the left wing of capital and eventually liberalize over time out of necessity, while openly ML parties just do what Social Democrats said they would. ML in reality is succdem, succdem in reality is just liberalism with, at best, sovereign wealth fund characteristics and at worst austerity.
>>1012243 They fought hard to get where they are (only socdem normal state in a Region of night mare Us puppets) so they have the respect of us anons
>>1012656 With this line of thought Posadists are simply trots, so what group would act like them?
Why not both? You can make a country democratic socialist through social democratic policies as a transition. For example all failed businesses instead of being bailed out as their current form could be bailed out to be turned into coops. Private businesses could be restricted to the point they are no longer the dominating portion of the economy.
>>1011534 Have fun dying of climate change and exploiting the third world
>>1012636 Unironically, yes
>>1012425 Socialist countries can be couped as well, and MAS are already coming back to power.
>>1012725 This is what Lenin proposes in "On cooperation" and i'd say it's standard ML praxis especially after taking power in really backwards countries.
>>1013163 Mas is coming back to power after waging a year long struggle with 15 day of general strike and 30 dead and dozens of injuries though, so it's still WAY more militant than your average Western succdem.

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