/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion. Join the Matrix: https://matrix.to/#/+leftychat:matrix.org Visit the Booru: https://lefty.booru.org/

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New Board Announcement Anonymous 10/23/2020 (Fri) 21:42:01 No. 1029438 [Reply] [Last]
>>>/b/ All threads that were previously anchored on /leftypol/ for low quality or being NSFW will now have a second chance on /b/. Vols can move threads there. Idpol threads remain barred. Beyond that, go forth and reclaim your posts.
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>>1034721 >>1034727 Probably the Mao Zedong article, but the Al Gore one is pretty good as well.
>>1034367 >Bad word choice on my part, but my point is that this radlib idea that reactionaries are irreversibly evil and corrupted is retarded and makes for terrible praxis IRL. Reactionaries CAN and SHOULD be "converted". Many oldfag /leftypol/ers from the 8chan era were former /pol/yps or otherwise reactionaries. You're not wrong anon, but the question is how do you tolerate reactionary ideas without making concesions, and what demographics are actually even worth caring about. Incels for example are such a miniscule portion of the population and their ideas are so deranged that accomodating them in any way only leads to losing trust among women that caring about them at all is not cost effective. I never was a /pol/ack, but I was for a while on the "classical liberal" fag train, and I was very disillusioned with leftist ideas in general. So I know that reactionary brain worms are not untreatable. I also know that when I talk about my political ideas with normal proles who are otherwise "reactionary" in that they're anti-left and open to right wing ideas, they are quite receptive to me because I'm not like the idea of Communist they have in their head. But you have to do a lot of balancing between the people that are already on your side and the people you might want to win over.
>>1029749 It was created to house idpol, which generally means discussion about racism. But an incel would post there (who probably wasn't an incel, but simply used egotism to criticize the right wing feminist assumptions that a lot of the left holds) and he became a lighting rod for a clique of quite frankly mentally ill people on this board to include a few transgender janitors. From what I can tell "the incels" were actually one guy that would simply respond to attacks from about a dozen autists that triggered by any talk of men's issues.
>>1029776 top kek
>>1034795 >such a miniscule portion of the population and their ideas are so deranged That's what /pol/ says about transhumanists.

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New Multitude- The relaunch Anonymous 10/19/2020 (Mon) 08:03:23 No. 1013137 [Reply] [Last]
1. New site is up https://newmultitude.org/ you can support the site at https://www.patreon.com/newmultitude (the plan is for original translations to be patreon exclusive for a length of time before they are up on the site) 2. Do you have something unique, helpful or funny to say? please get in touch. I will help you write your article. I am a college teacher by trade (specifically sociology and social studies) so even if you have no experience in writing, I can help edit your piece. What we want: unique theory, guides and explainers of both classic and new theory, translations, scene guides, news explainers from people on the ground, book reviews, etc 3. Global Scope. Let's face it, there are hundreds of similar sites out there that cover US/UK politics. There's nothing wrong with that and we will continue to accept western submission, but we would REALLY like to build on a niche that is missing: a truly global site with analysis and news from around the world. If it's not you, perhaps you know someone from your local scene who is a good writer? 4. Translations. I want to start putting up a translation a month of work that has hitherto gone untranslated into English. This could be classic articles or new authors and can be hard theory or even short stories, news analysis or even poems. It would be amazing if leftypol could help source some candidates for translation. 5. Promotion. I'll be honest I have no idea how to do this. We have a twitter account twitter.com/newmultitude but not many followers and I see other leftist magazines getting loads of followers. Does anyone have experience in this or have any suggestions? 6. finally, thank you to all the artists and writers and supporters who have helped with the launch. There are some great writers and people on leftypol and I want to extend my thanks to you in getting this project off the ground. Solidarity!
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>>1032430 write the article then! I'll read it for sure
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>>1030286 PLEASE DO IT
>>1031764 This can be done once leftypol gets real big (as in something like 3x its peak on 8chan), now let's focus on running New Multitude and promoting both it and the board itself.
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>>1032459 Do it based anon
>>1034072 Cute Chilean Chad Communist Camilla Can vamos por las 40 horas with me anytime she wants if you know what i mean ;^)

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For New Anons and Lurkers: FAQ, rules, and reading list Anonymous Board volunteer 07/05/2020 (Sun) 20:23:05 No. 668788 [Reply] [Last]
๐Ÿšง๐ŸšงPlease bookmark http://leftypol.org in case this current domain gets v&ed or anything else.๐Ÿšง๐Ÿšง Visual Guide for New Anons https://bunkerchan.xyz/.media/e7c5eab9a4fa215d646e6c8aaee497ef-imagepng.png Do not put your e-mail in the e-mail field First, Please read this OP. Since we're leftists, there shouldn't be many differences ideologically, but our community has its own jargon and idiosyncrasies which might be jarring to outsiders. Second, although we allow slurs, we are anti-bigotry and it will not be tolerated. Thirdly, the board has an anti-idpol rule. Meaning that discussion of idpol topics is not allowed. There is some flexibility. Where that flexibility is also requires some time to get the feel of it. Fourthly, don't put anything in the name, or email fields. Don't doxx yourself Search the catalog before starting a new thread to avoid duplicates: https://bunkerchan.xyz/leftypol/catalog.html MOD LOG: If you wish to see the log of mod actions (ban, deletions etc...) see https://bunkerchan.xyz/logs.js?boardUri=leftypol META DISCUSSIONS AND GENERAL COMPLAINTS AND QUERIES ABOUT THE SITE'S ADMINISTRATION: >>>/gulag/ Useful threads are often remade when expired, search the catalog if these links are broken. Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread >>983378 Internet General >>986104

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Edited last time by krates on 10/21/2020 (Wed) 01:36:49.
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>>1028957 They voted.
>>1019152 >this doubles vertical clutter even on a desktop monitor valid complaint but I doubt this will encourage people to post more images at once. Rather, it will make it easier for people to post in one single post all the images they would have had to upload into two separate posts before.
>>1019152 My digital copy of Michael Vickery's 1982 book on the Cambodian revolution is 20.4 mb.
Anyone got a PDF of this?
>>1030022 it's already available on libgen

Are there technological prerequisites to Communism? Anonymous 10/25/2020 (Sun) 18:54:53 No. 1034808 [Reply] [Last]
My understanding of Marxism is still foggy in a lot of areas, but reading Cockshott has really made think more about the role of technology and the transition of primitive economies to something more advanced. We've discussed this kind of topic before and I think the best thread on it was the "Anti-technology false consciousness", so I hope I'm not retreading too much. To begin, if I understand correctly, Marxists wouldn't consider Capitalism to be a series of ideological conditions that when met creates some kind of "true capitalism." Like if I went back in time and encountered a tribe of cavemen, and after making a tophat out of sticks and leaves set up a primitive "business" paying cavemen in some dirt coin to collect branches in a forest that I own, I wouldn't really be creating "Capitalism" but rather a Capitalistic primitive economy, right? That is to say, that Capitalism as an economy is different from Capitalism as an ideology; one is a dynamic material thing that evolves and occurred as a consequence of the industrial revolution, the other is a series of ideological observations made by Smith and others about what should be done in response to this new "market." This required an industrial revolution though, so one might say that Capitalism has an industrial pre-requisite and as such cannot simply be idea'd into existence. Is Communism bound by the same "rules"? If I remember right, Marx points out examples of what he describes as "Primitive Communism" but his purpose was to suggest that humans adapting to different systems of ownership is backed by historical precedent and that suggesting that private property is apart of humanity's nature is silly. So Primitive Communism isn't really Communism in the sense of what we desire right? And since there are technological requirements for a shift in economic stages, we can reason that Communism which relies firstly on a Socialist system to create it, needs some technological level for this to be done? That's not to suggest that we should sit around and wait for Star Trek style replicators to force some kind of social epiphany, but couldn't you say that Communism was to advanced for its own good when its implementation was never completed in the Soviet Union, of which we still argue about it being Socialist or not, which is, if not a material requirement for Communism, generally agreed to be an ideological requirement. Cockshott talks a lot about how computer technology has already surpassed the sufficient level of accuracy to plan an economy, and suggests that in the early years of Khrushchev's term in the USSR, that cybernetics and computer science were seen by the general society to be the obvious path forward, and that the abortion of something like the OGAZ system was a political failure of the soviets rather than an actual material impossibility. Is there a technological requirement for Communism? If so have we already surpassed it?
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You need infinite resources to meet everyone's infinite wants.
>>1034825 >to meet everyone's infinite wants. Pure ideology.
Communism isn't possible if there is agrarian technology.
We've long ago passed any technological requirement for lower communism. The ticket system marx first proposed in his Gotha Program was already enough. Technological determinits have it backwards in this sense. If the soviet union were to have moved to the punch card and telegraph system, they would have โ€” out of necessity โ€” invented computers and electronics before anyone else. The problem is always the political problem, the people problem.
Cockshott basically doesn't give input-output linear leontief economies their due. These have never been tried, the logic behind them is sound, the basis is materialist, and most importantly the computational task of optimizing them is both straightforward and transparent. (Linear programming is the technique one uses for this optimization.) In contrast neural nets, while a brilliant invention, are sufficiently opaque that using them as the basis for economic optimization is to me comparably concerning as relying on the Invisible Hand. I do not understand why Cockshott advocates a more opaque form of economic planning and the matter of computational complexity is almost certainly a red herring; as long as you can ensure that the most important goods are manufactured and disbursed appropriately it can be okay if there are occasional inefficiencies on the margins of production. That being said, even the method of material balances of the Soviet Union has quite a few advantages over western capitalism. But believing that there was some technological advance in the last half-century without which central economic planning could not be made efficient is, in my view, a prejudice of our times (and insofar as Cockshott is concerned of his profession).

Is it sadistic or wrong to genuinely want rightards to fucking suffer? Anonymous 10/16/2020 (Fri) 11:13:16 No. 1004472 [Reply] [Last]
I despise rightoids, like, the thought that there actually people as well and not just human-sized rodents makes me physically ill, it's difficult for me to decide what I hate about rightoids the most, whether it's the fact that they're stupid fucking animals who know even less about the world than liberals, or whether it's the fact that they're monstrous pieces of shit with nothing redeemable inside them. It's difficult to comprehend rightards as even being worthy of redemption, like, take the average Nazi officer or the average US general; why should such people be given any leeway ever? Were I Joseph Stalin I would order that every SS motherfucker in detainment gets fucking flayed alive. Know what, I know why I hate rightoids. It's because they're specifically evil, but also very, very stupid. Like, look at these people, they're literally just savage fucking animals. If you see a rightard that isn't an utter coward, notice how they're usually just mindless apes. Neanderthals. Fucking animals. At least liberals want to build something, even the most psychotic communist still wants a better world; the goals of rightoids however is to build NOTHING, these faggots only have destruction as a goal. Whether the QAnon retards in America who effectively want to destroy a government to save capitalism even though the government only exists to do this; or whether it's the Nazoid fags of the Reich who accomplished nothing beyond turning Europe into ruins, the right wing literally has no goal but the destruction of societies and human lives, at best they only exist to keep parasites in power. How could any sane society not just euthanize rightoids as a matter of principle?
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>>1004472 why do you all care about non white subhumans so much??!!
>>1034760 >www.theoccidentalobserver.net lol
>>1034851 >1917 the politburo only had one non jewish member, josef stalin >total cohencidence
>>1034831 why would i wanna do that?
>>1034850 Into the Barbara pit son Spelunking is a great hobby

๐Ÿ—‘๏ธ /ITG/ โ€“ Internet Trash General ๐Ÿ’ป Anonymous 10/12/2020 (Mon) 02:55:49 No. 986104 [Reply] [Last]
Containment thread for the lowest forms of internet discussion: ๐Ÿ’ฉ Social Media Screenshots ๐Ÿ“ž E-celeb Gossip ๐Ÿ•ธ๏ธ Internet Happenings
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foucault muke??
>>1034761 what an absolute fucking pretentious mother fucker he'll turn trans in a decade
>>1034761 No dont give him attention for painted fingers, give him attention for intellectual content.
>>1034841 >intellectual content >muke

Anonymous 10/25/2020 (Sun) 02:26:35 No. 1033074 [Reply] [Last]
Do MLs (or Marxists in general) have any critique of anarchism that doesnโ€™t boil down to >no organization >no army >no reading
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>>1033074 The State is good actually
>>1034853 I mean the examples i cited last 100 years, so it's not anything modern as an issue.
>>1033151 That article is cringe as fuck
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The biggest issue with leftism is that it cannot end anything until circumstances end the conditions for the existence of what they oppose.

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Neo-Cameralism and Voluntary-Communes Anonymous 10/25/2020 (Sun) 15:41:28 No. 1034357 [Reply] [Last]
What is leftypol's thoughs on those ideologies? As you know we live in democracy every group tries to force their values to society but are we really need that?It's like mine values are true ones so all of society should be forced to them or i would be angryy !!11!shit;really why can't we have seperate communities for everybody. Are you green-vegan?go to place where is nearly full of tress.are you an white-fascist?go and live in ethno-commune.dou you not like lgbt?go and live lgbt-free place.are you support mutualism instead communism?then go and live in mutualist place.It's simple.Why are we fighting each other on things like lgbt is degenaracy and should be removed or we all humans should live together even if it's forced ?
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Well there are groups like this in the United States such as the Amish in the rural Midwest who have largely not changed their lifestyles in 200 years. And nobody really has a problem with them -- hell, people find them charming if anything -- and their attitude towards the rest of the society is largely indifference and if they pay attention to it at all, it's enough to know they don't want anything to do with it. In fact, they live a "trad" lifestyle which the proponents of that on Twitter with their cool Greek statue avatars can only dream about. But most of the guys with the cool statue avatars probably don't want to actually live like the Amish. To live that kind of lifestyle, separated from modernity to the most part (with only a few accommodations here and there) requires sacrifices those guys just aren't willing to make. You "can't have your cake and eat it, too." If you want to live in a big, safe, modern city with a population in the millions and with all its technological interconnectivity and modern conveniences then that environment is just going to atomize people. That is not all "good" or "bad," although there are probably both "good" and "bad" aspects to it, it just is. https://youtu.be/kHX6YgMbBSA
Is forcing rapists into a cell a violation of anarchist principles :thonking:
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>>1034602 The other amazing thing about the Amish is that they're not separated from the rest of the society by any borders. They live in the midst of the most commercially-minded capitalist society in the world and have still managed to maintain their traditions. Their separation is psychological, although also material as they deliberately limit the distance they can travel by refusing to use cars. And they keep to their culture by refusing to watch television or use the internet. If you don't want to be swept up by changes wrought by modernity, stop watching movies, stop playing video games, stop posting online. Unplug and go live on a farm in a patriarchal Bible collective. My brother knows a Greek Orthodox nun who does use the internet, but she literally lives in a Greek Orthodox monastery on a mountaintop in Greece. Pretty cool pen pal to have because they make a lot of stuff themselves and will send you gift packages in the mail. But the modern megachurch Protestant stuff in the U.S. and so on is really weird to her. But modernity is not so bad, if you think about it: https://youtu.be/BQ_ovV6PoRk
>>1034567 Youth sets a person's subconscious views for the rest of their lives.

Depression Anonymous 10/24/2020 (Sat) 13:12:49 No. 1031303 [Reply] [Last]
I know people who are severely depressed to the point of complete dysfunction and yet are ruled by the capitalist ideology. For the longest part of my life "severe depression" was defined as a person who's so dysfunctional they can't get out of bed, can't go to work etc. But most super depressed people I see today are people who work, work, work but outside of that can't get any part of their life to function in a way that even approaches healthiness. My ex-gf was one of these people. She studied linguistics in UNI, then came to job market that had no need for her skills. What ended up happening was she became so depressed that she was unable to feel even basic joy outside of the most basic creature comforts. She was consistently job-searching and doing work of different kinds but outside of that her mental health issues started to explode. We tried to get her to take sick leave many times, but she wouldn't have it. We tried to make her understand that she's a valuable human being even if the chaos of the invisible hand doesn't recognize that at the very moment, but she wouldn't believe us. Sense of worthlessness, paralysis of long term planning (indeed, of even imagining you can have a future outside of your current circumstances), seeing people who try to help you as further proof of your worthlessness. These are the symptoms of the modern terminal depression. My ex got so bad she was talking about suicide every other week. When I tried to make her see herself as a part of a larger economic structure that's fucking hippy detached from the harsh truths of economy. Ignoring the fact I was both employed in a blue collar job, and studying a field that might actually bring us some money. Before we broke up she was finally enjoying semi-stable employment, but the uncertainty of the future only became more crushing by the little advances she had made. Her moods became even more unpredictable, and her general behavior could only be described as "undefined". Her life became a constant dysfunction, while her role as a proletarian became more functional as ever before. I truly and sincerely hope that the class of people who impose this despair and manufactured insanity on the masses will one day feel the full brunt of it. When we're at a point your own family's attempts at taking collective care of you are naturally felt as further proof of your worthlessness, we have entered the eve of a revolutionary period. The people who not only benefit of this order, but torture others by maintaining this old ideology deserve nothing but the full brunt of the peoples despair redirected at them. They have created a mass psychosis of a dysfunctional status quo, so they shall receive a mass psychosis of a revolution.
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>>1034769 No Live for the revolution
>>1034796 Who said anything about living for a purpose? The point is that one persists and CHOOSES to live without regard for existential conditions or relations either to mankind or to some ideal. You shouldn't deny the lack of a god-given meaning in life. What you should do is persist anyways because you WANT to persist. Because you WANT to live no matter how painful it is. Anything else is infantile and worth only contempt.
>>1034812 >The point is that one persists and CHOOSES to live without regard for existential conditions or relations either to mankind or to some ideal Most people just live by default without choosing to live. And that's how it always will be and always has been. Suicide has always existed but 99 percent of people will never commit suicide no matter how bad they feel. So to create a false dichotomy between willing to live or just giving up one's life is a false one. That isn't how it works in reality. The point is that these people have probably tried to will their existence, but have found none. >without regard for existential conditions or relations either to mankind or to some ideal. That is what most people already do, it doesn't make them feel any better. >You shouldn't deny the lack of a god-given meaning in life. Are you a christ-hard or do you mean it in a sense that there might be a meaning but in living we shouldn't necessarily seek it out actively? >What you should do is persist anyways because you WANT to persist. I agree pretty much, but usually people are depressed (I think) because society has put them in the position where its inevitable. Constant bullying, abuse, failure to live up to physical standards of beauty or intelligence or academic success-- all these take a toll on the psyche even in those with iron will, society stratifies and persecutes those lower on the pecking order and we see statistically this works if you just look at statistics on mental health. You are taking a purely individualist view for issues that are society wide and can be found festering in the population. Does that mean we need to give into the general malaise of our era? No, but people are still going to feel the way they feel because society is a shit place to be, and your solution is not really sustainable unless you live according to some "american dream" (you strike me as a boomer type who lives in a suburb, are you not?)
>>1034791 >>1034812 Did daddy smack you around all your childhood and then tell you to take it? Because I'm sorry is he did. I'm just trying to understand you.
>>1034835 Good for those who don't even need to deliberate over whether to live or die, but my broader point is that life itself is pain and those who cannot handle their pain cannot handle their own life and so cannot be owed dignity or respect. Pain is worthless to anyone else but the sufferer, and if you cannot hold an independent will to live then you cannot be anything else but either a parasite or a tool.

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๐Ÿฆ… /USApol/ ๐Ÿ—ฝ United States Politics ๐Ÿˆ Anonymous 05/26/2020 (Tue) 19:10:57 No. 531727 [Reply] [Last]

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>>1034828 Is that Biden's son?
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>>1034733 >Fordism on industrial production to lower the power of unions In specific industries, but that's not how automation works economy-wide. Higher productivity corresponds to higher bargaining power for labor, because it cuts consumer prices, in turn increasing demand for both production and employment. >entire orthodoxy of Marx-Leninism was itself a major shift in the conception of how revolution could be achieved No, it was bog standard Marxist DiaMat, except for the dubious "innovation" of embalming underground cells during peacetime as "democratic centralism". >outright banned electoral struggle Not quite accurate. The IWW banned official union involvement with political activity, but allowed members to do so. Further, many other unions of the same era were highly involved in parliamentary activity just like the Bolsheviks, and of course this was part of a wider debate that continued from decades earlier and continued long after that raged across different tendencies of unions, Marxists, anarchists, and pretty much every other form of radical leftism. >there was a long retreat from socialist policies Understatement >which those countries didn't have Until around the same time as they began developing political power, much of it nurtured among the nascant proletariat. >The unions that couldn't exist yet? Unions existed in Russia immediately on legalization in 1905, even before that massive industrial strikes were organized back to the 1870s. >it largely came down to the organization of the non-industrialized peasantry No, that was the SRs. In fact this failure of the Bolsheviks came to be the source of all their later woes. >what few concessions were gained, were quickly wiped away Most of the concessions from that era are still here. Legal strikes, unions, bankruptcy, 40-hour workweek, minimum wage, child labor, pensions, etc., The decay at present mostly effects post-WWII reforms.

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