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Anonymous 08/01/2020 (Sat) 23:49:56 No. 737901 [Reply] [Last]
I used to think around feburary of this year that the best trajectory for the American left was to unify as closely as possible the few leftist parties present with unions such as the iww in a sort of pseudo deleonist line but now I'm not so sure Is this, and by extension deleonism, still tenable? Pic unrelated
>>737901 why are you not so sure now about it?
Left unity basically already exists, the problem is there are far fewer people on the left than leftists tend to think there are. But yes, having the correct line that can win mass support is what you should do. Facing outward and building the working class movement seems like a better orientation than trying to corral a bunch of small groups who hate each other together. But the line you should want is "things that work for our society" instead of being too pure ideologically. De Leon could be very dogmatic in a way. There's also a common misappropriation of Mao's idea that "the mass line will inevitably win over the public" into meaning "if I can make my six friends agree with me our weekly meetings will swell in number and we will build communism" instead of "the line that attracts the most people to revolutionary activity is necessarily the correct one." <-- It's this. You have to be able to solve people's problems first. There is COVID, economic problems, problems of police brutality and racism. These are immediate problems that act on people in their lives. It's not like most Vietnamese or Chinese people read Das Kapital in the original German when they joined the communists. It's not like most people care about what Marxism means when they're being gassed or shot to death by police and white supremacists. We have to prove to the people we're on their side through our own actions. Speaking personally, the thing that brought me to the left was Charlottesville, not because I really knew anything about Marxism. I was pissed off at Nazis and I remember seeing images of socialists there with red flags who were willing to go out and confront those assholes and I was like "I'm going to join the socialists now." It's like, oh gee, these people seem like they're actually willing to fight against the people I find threatening and bad, and will protect me if the bad people tried to attack me, so I will join their cause. The concept is very simple once you break it down into the basic logic. https://youtu.be/neI-ol2AowM
>>739376 >But yes, having the correct line that can win mass support is what you should do. I don't think this has ever been what has won mass support. I think people have rallied around personalities far more than around a correct line.
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>>739397 Probably helps. But Nelson Mandela, who was this world-historical figure, emerged from prison after spending 27 years locked up to a mass support base, most of whom had never even SEEN him before. And he wasn't even a good speaker. He was wooden, kinda flat. Foreign observers commented on it at the time because it confused them. But the ANC was doing the work and building support among the people and fighting the struggle.

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Is protectionism "anti-imperialist"? Anonymous 08/02/2020 (Sun) 17:55:05 No. 739401 [Reply] [Last]
Is protectionism, the practice of tarrifs on imports in order to keep jobs within the nation "anti-imperialist" or is it merely another kind of financial imperialism?
Protectionism was the dominant economic stance of the Western Imperial powers throughout the height of the colonial period (predominantly via Mercantilism). Protectionism is not inherently anti-imperialist and is often used to protect the Imperial core.
Only when china does it
Marx personally was for free trade and against protectionism from an accelerationist standpoint, whether you think that argument still holds up is up to you.
>>739401 It can be both I suppose. It could be used to keep foreign capital out , but it can also perpetuate imperialism by keeping its corporations strong and powerful, so they can engage in Imperialism.
>>739423 This but unironically.

Anonymous 07/02/2020 (Thu) 10:35:03 No. 660833 [Reply] [Last]
Stalin: >ruled for 25 years over a territory of 22,402,200 km2 >population under his rule: 150million in 1927 - 196million before WW2 >average population number under his rule: 173 000 000 >3.3 million excess deaths under his rule (executions, gulags, etc. not counting the holo and the domor) >math: 173,000,000 / 3,300,000 = 52.42 Every 52th citizen died under Stalin. >Time And Territory Adjusted Excess Deaths (TATAED - a term I just made up, measured in metric units of "horror") >math: (every citizen dieded + time) * horror constant [100,000] / territory = (25+52) * 100,000 / 22,402,200 = 0.3437 TATAED: 0.34 horror, or 34 centihorror Anarchist Catalonia: >(un)ruled for 3 whole years over a territory of 32,108 km2 >average population under their (un)rule: 2.8million >excess deaths (executions, gulags, etc.) between 38000 and 72344, average: 55000 >math: 2,800,000 / 55,000 = 50.9 Every 51th citizen died under anarchism.

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>>710225 >This answer may contain sensitive images. Click on an image to unblur it. d-did they just fucking TRIGGER WARNING simple images of Stalin, holy shit?
>>733374 Yep, fairly common occurrence on quora >>733369 Get out burger
>>660833 >land area All countries have an uneven distribution of population.
>>660840 funny thing, what we fight against is not subjective alienation, as one can feel at home under capitalism and the solution would be to accept its ideology. What we fight against is objective alienation at the level of production, so how one might feel is but a petty preocupation for that person in particular
>>733369 >actually believing that

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Marginal Utlity Anonymous 08/01/2020 (Sat) 07:19:19 No. 736661 [Reply] [Last]
As a theory makes no god damn sense to me as an alternative to the labor theory of value. With the LTV, you have constant capital, variable capital, and surplus value, where variable capital is how much it costs to keep your workers showing up to work, constant capital is the means of production, and surplus value (profit) is the difference between C + V and the price at which the commodity is sold on the open market. And the reason why firms dont charge a fuckton for most products is because they would easily be undercut by a rival firm. And the reason why certain products do cost a fuckton is because it's more profitable to make people pay out the ass for said product because it is an inelastic good and even if most people cannot afford it, it's okay because value can still be extracted by the top 20% of the population who can afford the product, and everybody else can just take on debt. US healthcare is a golden example of this. While marginal utility is what? the value of goods comes from how much people are willing to pay for it? It just feels so nebulous to me. So something costs X because people say it costs X? If workers aren't exploited, then where does surplus value come from? Why dont socks and pants carry the same price tag? After all, socks and shirts share an equal demand. People generally wear socks as much as they wear tshirts do they not? How come a common tshirt costs like 20$ but you can buy a pack of a dozen socks for 10$? What are some common bourgeoi economist answers to these questions? And what are some common arguments used against the LTV by said economists? Also, why does the logic taught in mainstream economics feel so detached from reality and sociopathic? For example, you have the prisoner dilemma, where they teach you that selling out the other inmate is the better choice, even though if both of you were to plead innocent, you both would get a lighter sentence and the outcome would benefit you both? How can people believe this marginal utility bullshit? It's like saying grass is green because grass is green.
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>>736804 Yachts aren’t at supply and demand equilibrium. But a piece of gum compared to a bucket of paint is where the LTV comes in.
shameless bump for more responses
why does a piece of bread cost the same to a billionaire and a homeless guy when the homeless guy needs it more?
>>738606 In theory, different people have different ability and willingness to pay, so distinguishing customers according to that would maximize your profits. But customers being able to exchange items and money between themselves limits the possibilities of price discrimination between customers of the same thing. It's different when you sell a service. Those receiving the service cannot transport it to another person. What limits price discrimination between customers here is competition on the supply side.
Every time workers go on strike they are experimentally verifying LTV. The independent variable is whether or not labor happens, and without MOP but no labor porky can't make value.

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ALIENS ARE REAL AND WE HAVE ONE OF THEIR SHIPS/posada was right Anonymous 07/24/2020 (Fri) 07:15:25 No. 714606 [Reply] [Last]
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/us/politics/pentagon-ufo-harry-reid-navy.html >Eric W. Davis, an astrophysicist who worked as a subcontractor and then a consultant for the Pentagon U.F.O. program since 2007, said that, in some cases, examination of the materials had so far failed to determine their source and led him to conclude, “We couldn’t make it ourselves. >Mr. Davis, who now works for Aerospace Corporation, a defense contractor, said he gave a classified briefing to a Defense Department agency as recently as March about retrievals from “off-world vehicles not made on this earth."
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>>715827 >>715738 whole things a psyop. if trump becomes the ayy lmao president thats an ez win. yall boutta see alien peener in october
>>714606 Did they do an isotope analysis? Because IIRC, every base element in the solar system have the same ratios between isotopes? In theory you could forge an object to have a different ratio. But it is hard. If there's an undiscovered way of propulsion and flight then the "ayy" aircraft may be run by a private organization. Hell, it could even belong to a single family that has kept silent for decades. It could also be that the UFOs are really red cell exercises. Consider incident preparedness. Friendly countries always test each other. NATO used to make intrusion on swedish airspace. And the quicker the swedish airforce responded, the better test result. Technically, it was red cell exercises. So why not test people by feeding the radar fake data with impossible aircraft? Not only can you see if the radar operators are alert, but also if they can recognize patterns.
>>724810 >we try to contact isolated primitive tribes constantly though, even the Sentinelese who kill outsiders on sight have had many contact attempts Primitive tribes are largely isolated by authority efforts. They are attempted to be contacted by individuals, and it's shunned upon. Sentinel islands are literally blockaded. >>724792 >tfw we are the undiscovered tribe of the galaxy One can imagine that development of interstellar travel is a test on maturity of the species, which generally proves that the species are fit to be considered sentient and suitable for life, and not, say, destructive barbarians or animals that can be used as pets or beasts of burden.
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>>732489 >This is a story fed to media by glowies to secure funding for the Pentagon's space force I think that could be part of it, but also a Hollywood-inspired viral marketing / recruiting campaign for the Navy and Air Force. If you follow the defense papers you'll know there's a big shortage of pilots and a variety of computer / tech / cyber fields that they need to achieve (and expand) their "pivot to Asia" goals to fight a war with China. The problem is anyone with brains and is good with computers doesn't want to join the U.S. military, especially when they can make more money in the private sector. Promising them a "good time" fighting a war with China will probably turn more people away from the military. And Middle East wars don't sell anymore. You have to give impressionable young people a reason to believe in the military, and the military has probably spent a ton of money figuring out that tech geeks like science fiction and stuff like that. It's all so obvious if you think about it for a second and it's also very American in that idiot savant way that only we're capable of being. https://youtu.be/6Q7fxXKpu1E
>>738748 >One can imagine that development of interstellar travel is a test on maturity of the species, which generally proves that the species are fit to be considered sentient and suitable for life, and not, say, destructive barbarians or animals that can be used as pets or beasts of burden. So the prime direction from star trek is real?

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Nina Andreeva dies at 91 Anonymous 07/27/2020 (Mon) 16:43:13 No. 723278 [Reply] [Last]
Nina Aleksandrovna Andreyeva was a Russian chemist, teacher, author, political activist, and social critic. A supporter of classical Soviet principles, she wrote an essay entitled I Cannot Forsake My Principles that defended many aspects of the traditional Soviet system, and criticized General Secretary Mikhail Gorbachev and his closest supporters for not being true communists. In the rebuke published in the official party newspaper Pravda the essay was called The Manifesto of Anti-Perestroika Forces. PRESS F
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The "vatnik" meme has Soros psyops written all over it. And yes, it is culturally racist and dehumanizing
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>>726161 Adjusted to dollar I mean. Also one dollar is thirty hryvna. One dollar is seventy rubles.
>>724642 >He's a "piece of shit" that at least managed to defend some of the gains of the Revolution. Defending revolution is when: http://www.compromat.ru/page_10373.htm?gx9f97e4522781d0d62d21de9951edd1ef=00af9e2f8b1cb11719011ae076964fae
>>728787 quick (english language) rundown?
>>723282 How right she was about the liberal playwrights and other "intellectuals": <The role played by the proletarian masses and the Bolshevik party is reduced to the "background" against which the actions of irresponsible politicians unfold. <(…) <I support the party's call to uphold the honor and dignity of the trailblazers of socialism. I think that these are the party-class positions from which we must assess the historical role of all leaders of the party and the country, including Stalin. In this case, matters cannot be reduced to their "court" aspect or to abstract moralizing by persons far removed both from those stormy times and from the people who had to live and work in those times, and to work in such a fashion as to still be an inspiring example for us today. >>724359 >She was a Russian chauvinist, she supported the Russian annexation of Crimea and the war in Donbas Crimea is overwhelmingly Russian, though? It was given to Ukraine in the 50s, that was in the context of both Russia and Ukraine being part of the USSR. The majority of people in these regions are fed up with Ukrainian chauvinism and outright neonazi movements. You are reversing perpetrator and victim and you are calling the reaction against racism racist.

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/ita/ - Spaghetti Communism Comrade 08/09/2019 (Fri) 15:54:13 No. 19862 [Reply] [Last]
Forse 8chan è definitivamente morto. Proprio pochi giorni dopo che stavo cominciando a pensare di ritornare a effortpostare, ecco che un paio di /pol/tardati ammeregani si danno allo sport preferito da quelle parti e ora quel sito sembra diventato la fonte di tutti i mali del mondo. Col risultato che hanno purgato anche il nostro bel filo. E vabè. Si chiude una porta, si apre un portone. Raccogliamoci qui e ricominciamo.
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>>739051 Dobbiamo aspettare la sua definitiva dipartita per dare un giudizio completo, ma si è trattato comunque di uno dei peggiori criminali italiani. Ha sdoganato fascisti e mafiosi, reso accettabili i peggiori comportamenti degli italiani, rovinato per sempre la televisione e la cultura italiana. Viviamo già nel post-berlusconismo secondo me, ma l'obiettivo è il post-post-berlusconismo.
>>739051 Il peggio del peggio culturalmente e politicamente, economicamente paradossalmente quite mild rispetto alle orcate del csx il che è tutto dire
>>739075 Questo perché all'epoca c'era ancora un'opposizione di sinistra. Chi ricorda le battaglie per l'articolo 18?
>>739087 >Chi ricorda le battaglie per l'articolo 18? Appunto
ah rega, qualcun'altro c'ha problemi con la carta?

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Cucknadia Anonymous 08/02/2020 (Sun) 06:35:14 No. 738527 [Reply] [Last]
>inb4 idpol burgeranon here. Is there any country on earth as cucked and pathetic as Canada? its a whole country which bases its identity off of not being America. Trudeau is the quintessential Canadian, the Canadian version of Obama where he is worshipped by liberals and considered this saint-like person. Its a whole country of liberals circle jerking themselves off about how good and moral and NOT-american they are and dunking on America by pretending they are better in any way. They aren't and the to extent that they are its because they just have a lower population and economy than America and thats the only reason they weren't as imperialist as America. They have the exact same history of native genocide for example but only get 1% of the shit for it. At least America has a population of leftists who are recognizing they live in the imperial core whereas the leafs are totally lacking self awareness and that makes them even worse. Canada is just a failed version of America which couldn't into imperialism so they console themselves by saying nuuuu we're not imperialist like those dirty AMERICANS. Their whole ideology and national identity is literally a COPE
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Canadians get all of your shitty media and news. Are Americans not aware of what they're putting out into the world because it makes you look awful. There are some shitty things about Canada but the writing has been on the wall for decades: the USA is headed towards a collapse and nobody in power is doing anything to stop it, instead making fake progress by pretending excessive idpol everywhere is an improvement meanwhile the collapse is still coming and still nothing is being done. We are going to have to live through your mess
Only thing I hate about Canada is the fact that it's only product is retarded right wing media personalities. Lauren Southern, Jordan Peterson, Molymeme, Gavin McInnes, Steven Pinker. All fucking Canadian. Only non right wing Canadian media personality I know is Jason Unruhe.
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>>738566 THATS WHAT IM SAYING, LEAFS TOTALLY DEFINE THEIR IDENTITY IN RELATION TO AMERICA. for the right wing ones (like southern) its literally LARPing as an american and for the left wing ones its by dunking on America for being imperialist and not having healthcare.
>>738527 >burgeranon here stopped reading right there
>>738572 lmao at that picture

anti consumerism thread Anonymous 08/01/2020 (Sat) 03:36:47 No. 736344 [Reply] [Last]
consumerism, turbo liberalism, culture war shit,and generally anything that helps show the soullessness of living under modern capitalism.
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>>738564 >i fucked 15 years old myself, it's not illegal here
What's wrong with consumerism again?
>>738612 It's litetally not illegal >>738603 i know for you people is impossible to think that not everyone in the world thinks like you, but sometimes is still like this.
>>738614 It's a tool of control. It's the imposition of petty boug ideology throught commodities. Consumer culture It's the homologation of everything that has potential to go in a different or radical direction from the current system. It's castration.
>>738615 Oh I realize that. There's nothing I can do about it, and you know what, I wouldn't do anything about it. But I will still make fun of you.

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What Ideology am i? Anonymous 08/02/2020 (Sun) 02:45:26 No. 738173 [Reply] [Last]
I am economically far left, but culturally i am conservative. Is there any leftists that are also like this? (i am not nazbol btw)
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>>738305 I'm socdem.I support gun rights.
>>738367 Rejection of ALL idpol is ideal
>>738173 Here i am
>>738757 Rock you like a hurricane
>>738201 By not support trannies, do you mean, there are two genders and you cannot change them, but I would leave them alone, which I agree with, or electro-shock therapy for the trannies, which would make you pretty based, but also a huge cunt.


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