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Why do Americans have the most retarded interpretation of this film imaginable? Anonymous Comrade 05/08/2020 (Fri) 17:49:15 No. 9288
Holy shit, I've rarely seen a movie as on the nose and blunt in its critique of capitalist society, and yet Americans seemingly cannot comprehend what it's a criticism of. I've seen "It's about authoritarianism" "It's about the death of free market competition" "It's secretly about socialism!" Holy fuck, how can it be possible to be as retarded as burgers? It's like unless a film blatantly jumps up and down shouting "CAPITALISM BAD" they literally can't parse out any form of symbolism or allegory at all. Why are these people such idiotic apes? The writer/director was literally part of the South Korean Socialist Party, tf is the dysfunction in burger brains?
>>9945 >most likely removed anything even remotely class conscious Nah thats how they used to do it. Now they twist the class-conscious rubbish to be liberal and evil, so that potential socialists are diverted; left-wingers into liberal idpol groups and right-wingers will completely reject any attempt at seeing the message and edge more into fascism.
If anything, its class theme was too brutally overplayed to the detriment to the overall film quality. Chris Evans sells the movie with his performance though. >>9300 Thats what the conductor (and the old guy apparently) wanted him to do, Chris Evans didn't necessarily follow through. Arguably it is what the porkies want, a 'aspirational' lower class person taking over the reign. >>9505 Crazy Rich Asians fucking sucks. I am so mad about the ending. At least the casting of the local actors was pretty good
>>9288 The plot has some similarities to Animal Farm in some regards which is why neo-libs think its anti-communist. Why Animal Farm is thought of as such as well is explored in >>5161
>>9950 >Crazy Rich Asians fucking sucks Why >mad about the ending whats wrong?
>>9291 TV tropes is garbage because they have a policy of not removing the interpretations of any person. So if one person says Barnie is a criticism of Capitalism, they'll leave it even if everyone in the comments says it isn't. That's why TV tropes is so bloated and often so dumb.
>>9957 Do you really need an explanation for why a movie called Crazy Rich Asians sucks balls?
>>9957 >Very poor representation of Singaporean society and culture, not a single minority or local slang at all. Literally orientalism from Asian Americans. >Traditionalism isn't expressed convincingly or accurate. >Stale "lower class girl meets upper class boy" plot often seen in Asian dramas, especially Korean >Boyfriend has very little presence or agency, sidekicks are cringe. There is even a 90s gay stereotype. >Spectacle over good storytelling. An Asian American told me that it is good for AAs to have representation in Hollywood and I replied that AA proved that they can make subpar to mediocre spectacles just like Hollywood. >whats wrong? Because the boyfriend has the cake and eats it. The whole point of the movie was that he had to choose girl and his life in Singapore, and he suddenly ends up with both just because he has his mother's blessing? That is fucking retarded. At least Kdramas have some kind of sacrifice and suffering on the upper class male for getting the girl. Honestly the sheer opulence of the CRA isn't so rage-inducing as the message that there is absolutely no drawbacks to being a wealthy son of an elite family. It should have ended with the boy leaving his family behind with the girl, while his mother secretly gave him her blessing and still keeps in contact with couple, something that the grandmother doesn't enjoy.
>>9969 >choose girl and his life in Singapore choose girl or his social life in Singapore
>>9969 >An Asian American told me that it is good for AAs to have representation in Hollywood and I replied that AA proved that they can make subpar to mediocre spectacles just like Hollywood. lol that reminds me of the time I was dunking on a mexican-american netflix show for being terrible and full of borderline racist stereotypes and some wokeys on twitter went "shut up, even if it's shit we got hispanic representation on TV" and "you don't understand because you're Mexican not chicano" This representation meme is the dumbest shit
>>9971 I don't necessarily think that people should not want representation, but goddamn the bar for it can't be this low.
>>9967 No, but having a breakdown makes it easier to state why. >>9971 >representation meme is the dumbest shit It always is
>>9971 The repersentation meme is just tokenism, which used to be pretty seriously looked down upon a few decades ago.
>>9974 >used to be pretty seriously looked down upon a few decades ago Yeah, after which the CIA geared up and employed people like Gloria Steinhem to create "le modern feminism"
>>9972 >the bar for it can't be this low When you don't know better, even shit looks good... which is ironic considering that representation in 80s and 90s films was actually more unique and diverse without it being unnecessarily partisan.
>>9401 The things is… it's not. This is what I dislike about the film: the 'proles' at the butt of the train are not proles, they don't produce anything! We never see them working for the bottom sections, all they do is receive things and be punished. There's even a scene where they are shocked when they discover how the food they've been eating for years is made. I never understood why the last section of the train even exists. They are the source of slave children, and that's all. But the train has a whole indoctrination system thanks to which the middle sections of the train would be glad to offer their children voluntarily to Wilford.
>>10826 tail section exists to present a common enemy for the upper classes to unite against so theres no internal conflict tail section passengers are also easy to purge making population control easy and ofcourse provide slave children without sacrificing any of their own best justifications i could think of
>>9295 >Just change the social relations of child labor, maaaaaan. Just call it the people's lithium mine, bro. I mean, yeah. You probably still have to mine rare earth minerals in socialism, you baby ultra. Child labor doesn't have to be inherently bad either, Marx was for it under socialism. If we take the train as a allegory of capitalism, then destroying it is indeed the Swing Riots solution, the primitivist solution, the Khmer Rouge solution.
>>9296 Okay, you arrive at this conclusion by taking the train as a reified social relation itself, with no material attributes.
>>9300 >the state exists in a vacuum Fucking hell we've put this nonsense to rest over a hundred years ago
There's a new Snowpiercer TV series that's about 6 episodes so far, anyone seen it?
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>>10844 >gotta make a series out of everything
>>10845 Snowpiercer is one of those things that can only work as a feature film. The premise is obviously so ridiculous and allegorical that any attempt to stretch this out to a drama show that wants to be taken seriously is bullshit. I can suspend my disbelief of a train encircling an ice planet for a movie when I see that it's a social critique. I can't not do that for 20 fucking hours of television including personal drama or whatever. Also, 100% they throw the anti-capitalist notions out the window.
>>10845 Capitalism, milking everything dry and dead.
How would you rate this film? I give it an 8/10, with some points lost because of some inconsistent themes.
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Honestly just watch El Hoyo/The Platform on Netflix. It does everything Snow Piercer tried to but 10 times better
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>>10844 Yeah, I've seen the whole thing actually. There's talk of rebellion and uprising, but ultimately it's just a liberal idea of it, where the working class and middle-class side with the tail against the upper class and after a little bit of fighting, all of the upper class's "army" is conveniently removed from the train, thus ensuring a relatively peaceful transfer of power, where nothing really changes except now there's talk of "democracy" and elections. However, in the first episode after the successful takeover, they already make it a point that these lower classes taking over doesn't change many things as these lower ones just occupied the same positions of power in the train. As someone has wrote in this thread, taking over the train and not abandoning it, just means changing the people in the necessary roles for the train. There is no brutal child labour on the train however, and there are hard jobs, but nothing like the child in the engine in the movie. Other than a few stupid things, I've enjoyed the movie as an interesting show. I have abandoned any hope of a socialist message in the first episode. The first season is over, and in the last episode they tease what that second season is going to be about: Wilfred, presumed dead, is actually on a different train that is a supply train that can catch other trains and grab them in its jaws, then connect into them and hack the train, taking it over. Needless to say, I won't be watching the second season.
>>13844 Snow Piercer at the end of the day is fun Hollywood revenge porn. El Hoyo is just bleakness, depression and Kafka on ultra steroids just like real life
>>13853 Sniff my booty fag
>>13844 FFS then every movie where post-apocalyptic people survive in the ice and snow is "good" by that metric.
>>13858 >post-apocalyptic people survive in the ice and snow Name 5 movies
>>13970 I've seen several and only Snowpiercer is the one I bothered to remember
>>13845 > thus ensuring a relatively peaceful transfer of power, where nothing really changes except now there's talk of "democracy" and elections. A literal social democracy. Of fucking course
>>13844 It is 10 times worse for the sheer heavy handed metaphor. I still don't what the fuck does sending the kid up have to do with anything.
>>9290 There is a theory that the train was breaking not the first law of thermodynamics but the second, which means that it syphons energy from the surrounding areas which means that it is itself the cause for the apocalypse due to how inefficient it is. So destroying it is a necessary step to recovery.
>>14255 hope that things will change I guess. However it's kinda obvious the protag went crazy and everything that happens in the last 10 mins is his imagination.
>>14588 >However it's kinda obvious the protag went crazy and everything that happens in the last 10 mins is his imagination. Oh yea sure, whatever helps make the movie seems better I guess.
>>14630 It's what the director said nigga
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>>14632 source?
Watched The Platform yesterday and let it sit for a bit. So, here are my takes on it. First, on the ending. The way I interpret it is that either a) He went into delusions after being wounded in the last fight, ate the cake or ruined it some other way, died, but the visions allowed him to cope and go out peacefully, happy that he achieved his goal, or b) He died basically just after the fight, cake survived and he, in his dying visions reinterpreted the situation into a dreamy fantasy where the girl was real. Alright, with that out of the way, my hot take analysis on the film. I actually don't think the film is that much anti-capitalist. It can definitely be read as it, but it doesn't really fit on a closer analysis. If anything, for me at first sight it seemed anti-communist with the good ol' "muh human nature" vs the ebil utopian socialist administration that want to do creepypasta social experiment to create the new socialist man. However, this analysis also doesn't really stand on further inspection, first due to the fact that some anti-capitalist commentary does indeed exist, but also due to the fact that what I think the movie is trying to tell is way smarter. So, what do I believe the movie is about then? Well, I think it is a much needed analysis of how material conditions influence humans. The Hole is a fucking concentration camp. One that styles it self to be egalitarian, as everyone will get to experience the lower levels through random chance, but still a concentration camp. The fact is, no matter how much you would want to change a human, they will not accept it if their very survival is threatened. No solidarity can exist in such a place, no chance for some sort of "instant transformation" of how people act. They are driven to desperation and they will fight for their own lives. Not to mention the fact that the place is mismanaged as all hell, with too little food being provided for all the 300+ cells, as well as an inability to even count them all. The best you can do is have "solidarity covered in shit", as the movie says. Goering chooses Don Quixote as his one item to keep in the Hole as quite a heavy handed symbolism, especially when he eats the book in 202, him self, symbolically, becoming Don Quixote, and the very next month embarking on his final, doomed mission. It is only the wise guru who proposes an alternative: to deliver the cake to the administration, hopefully thus satisfying their insane wishes and finally making them change the material conditions of the entire Hole. The "leftist" readings of the film have been all the same Zizekian soyfacing over revolutionary suicide to create muh next generation that will bring the change, the way that Snowpiercer, Children of Men and to some extent Vendetta is. However, I argue that it is the exact opposite, a rejection of this take, showing that no, this individual suicide is nothing but a Don-Quixotian self delusion. In the end, it is not clear if the plan succeeded, as the visions before death make it all pretty blurry, but one thing stands true - in the end, if any change happens, it is not because Goering managed to "break the system" by killing some prisoners and feeding the bottom levels for one day, but because the administration might have been forced to change their mind about the entire situation, thus changing its conditions. As far as the anti-capitalist motives, they are there, but can't be held as a centerpiece imo. The class system is far different than the ones in real life. People are motivated by their own survival, not by need. I fully agree with the first cellmate who says that it is not he who is cannibalizing Goering, but the administration. He is correct. His actions are just rational response to the conditions given, not some sort of personal "greedy" flaw. Also, if it was supposed to be like capitalism, then there is no way that the top floor people wouldn't just stay in their place while shuffling over only the bottom ones. However the one parallel to capitalism that I found really strong was the fear that one must experience knowing that their life could always get destroyed by simple freak accidents, with no one there to help you. The scene where they first wake up in the really low floor, hear the wailing of those who were transported there as well and finally commit suicide felt a lot like hearing the horror stories of American healthcare where people would kill themselves to not leave any loans for their family after getting sick. In the end, I liked the film, however, it very much reminded me of a certain book called Forrest of the Gods, a memoir of an ex-concentration camp inmate, that basically shows the same situation and leads to quite similar conclusions once you think about it. And this book managed to do it all while also managing to be morbidly funny and enjoyable, while this film was quite hard to watch. However that is no fault of the directors, and it still stays an amazing film for me.
>>14653 >“Para mí, el último nivel no existe. Goreng muere antes de llegar, y lo que vemos es su interpretación de lo que habría hecho”, según el cineasta bilbaíno en la entrevista de The Digital Spy. “Quería que el final estuviera abierto a interpretaciones, como si el plan realmente funciona o si la gente de arriba siquiera se preocupa por los del hoyo”. if you're too lazy to google translate basically the director thinks the protag went crazy but he wants you to you make your own interpretation I also found the director was libpilled as fuck >realmente, creemos que puede haber una mejor distribución de la riqueza, pero la cinta no trata estrictamente del capitalismo", dijo, agregando que "Puede haber una crítica al capitalismo desde el inicio, pero mostramos que tan pronto Goreng y Baharat prueban el socialismo, intentando convencer a los otros prisioneros de compartir voluntariamente su comida, acaban matando a la mitad de esas personas, a las que se supone que deben ayudar He thinks that socialism is always violent andbad because when the protag tried to equally distribute the food, he ended killing up people, >>14657 Very good effort post, comrade
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2 films similar to Snow Piercer (in terms of the whole class heirarchy theme) are The Cube and the recent Spanish film called The Platform. Pyrocynical ironically did 2 very good reviews on both films (even if it's somewhat meme heavy). The Cube (& Hypercube) review https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FjmELC_6mU A good part of The Hypercube that Pyro misses is one detail: "When Simon shows up older after getting his eye stabbed, Pyro asked how he survived this long. Check out all those watches on his arm again. He's been killing and cannibalizing duplicates of Jerry over and over again for years." DeusDaecon does a review of the third film (and the first two): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k5vcWQYwIM The Platform review https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXTnsnqvEgE An interesting comment by Linzzy Tiger to the review and film, "the girl WASNT REAL, the ending is in the MIDDLE of the film, they never sent back the girl, she never ate the panacotta, because she wasnt there. we see the guys at the top take the panacotta, the scene were his judging it is because they think the reason no one ate it is beacuse of a HAIR, they take it as a rejection, not a form of solidarity, they think everyone in the hole has more than enough food, and are even picky about it. the system remains unchanged, the message failed."
>>15680 No the Cube is a vastly different film. It is all about being putting in a bizarre situation and slowly unraveling the internal logic of the world. There isn't any avenue for any class critique in it. At most you can make the point about how pointless the bureaucracy and dynamics of the world and how it is similar to the Cube, with the engineer's arc accepting the nonsense of the world/people and escaping it, just like the group slowly understands the Cube and escapes it. Imo the police officer going crazy is the dumbest twist ever, most pointless villain That is why Hypercube is so dumb, it suddenly abandons all internal rules and also adds a backstory. I can't seem to find it now, but I did come across the planned sequel that the director wrote but somehow gave up on it. It follows very similar plot but now the cube is 4d, ie the entrance and exit of the cube moves after every iteration. I think that script is much more superior than the original since the protagonist does go through the arc of not knowing shit, to having the cube explained to him, and finally obtaining the ability to solve the cube himself. Also the villain who is a nurse who thinks she is dreaming and spots a correlation in their progression through the cube and assumes it is causation actually makes sense instead of a stereotypical psychopath.
>>15702 >dumbest twist ever I disagree, Pyro actually explains that his good-guy act is a mask that slowly wears off as they progress through the cube, and his true colors emerge. >the planned sequel that the director wrote but somehow gave up on Huh, sounds quite interesting.
>>15704 >Pyro actually explains that his good-guy act is a mask that slowly wears off as they progress through the cube, and his true colors emerge. But the point is that his inclusion is needless and distracts from the real villain, the Cube and its makers. It became way too melodramatic since his motivation is him being an asshole. His sudden appearance at the end was wayyyyyyyy over the top. >Huh, sounds quite interesting. Yea it looks way better than the first but has a lot more effects and more complicated. The cop equivalent in it is more sympathetic as she at least attempts to solve the Cube in her own way.
>>15723 >The Cube is the villain No, the Cube is an antagonist, but a neutral one, the focus was different people and their different changes under the duress of the Cube's rooms and traps. The Doctor was vapid, materialistic and angrily hysterial, but as things progressed grew more level-headed, Mr.Cynical slowly opened up and was the only one to oppose the cop, and the cop, pretends to be a leader but as time passes shows his true nature. >The cop equivalent in it is more sympathetic as she at least attempts to solve the Cube in her own way Well that's sort of the point with the original Cop though, not really sympathetic, but logically sound (initially) until you se him begin to behave off kilter.
>>15702 McNeil's insistence that the world must have sense, must have meaning, and must be about him causes him to slide further and further into madness. It isn't some "twist" that comes out of nowhere. It's also typical copshit. Cops always have to dictate the reality around them and they go mad when the world and everyone in it doesn't bend over backwards to make their statements true.
>>9300 It really is, and everyone in this thread trying to make some "the train is capitalism" allegory is missing the point. The opening premise of the movie is that human civilization has collapsed; the world is a frozen iceball and the only people left are on a train that functions as a closed ecosystem that is slowly breaking down and cannot be replaced. This is both a post-communist AND post-capitalist world; they're not producing and exchanging commodities aboard the train, but at the same time the material abundance necessary for egalitarian communism is impossible on one closed, aging train. The class conflict between the lumpen stowaways and the regular crew and passengers is interesting, but at the end of the day the choice is between "eco-stalinism" of maintaining the train-society or nihilistically blowing it up. You can't really make the case for a liberatory alternative to what's presented in the film when it's premised on such bleak material conditions. Maybe they could have gotten out peacefully and lived like inuits for a few generations, I dunno. Apparently the graphic novel has multiple trains and settlements of survivors, so maybe that'd be more fruitful for speculation.
>>15737 >everyone in this thread trying to make some "the train is capitalism" allegory is missing the point A whole line of progression representing capitalist classes is somehow not part of the point... ok >You can't really make the case for a liberatory alternative to what's presented in the film when it's premised on such bleak material conditions. That's the point. Functionally its a dead-end. There is only a slow death or a fast one, and so the story itself is relatively pointless; no-one can ever really win. Which is why everyone is focusing on the important aspect - the class conflict.
I finally found the original sequel. https://web.archive.org/web/20180502093136/http://www.horrorsnotdead.com/Hypercube%28Final%20Draft%29.pdf >>15725 >the focus was different people and their different changes under the duress of the Cube's rooms and traps Honestly it was the most boring aspect of the film and why I don't enjoy horror movies in general where it seems like putting people under pressure automatically makes someone a psychopath or crazy. >but logically sound (initially) until you se him begin to behave off kilter He made terrible decisions after terrible decisions, even from a selfish point of views. He didn't listen to the girl at the start and even afterwards when she claimed the idiot savant is the only one that can bring them out, he still force her to discern the cubes. >>15726 >It isn't some "twist" that comes out of nowhere. I meant the twist of him killing the doctor and suddenly showing up at the end.
>>15955 >automatically makes someone a psychopath or crazy. It doesn't. The cop was a psycho from the beginning, but it wasn't visible in normal life because social norms caused him to repress it. >He made terrible decisions after terrible decisions I disagree. The girl was wrong initially and the claim of the idiot savant was a later reveal and rather unbelievable.


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