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Anonymous Comrade 01/11/2020 (Sat) 02:47:32 No. 5161
How did these clearly left wing books become a symbol for ancaps?
>>5330 >MLs are not commies considering that they're the only ones to create socialist states that didn't collapse within a year and actually defended themselves against imperialism and followed most if not all communist ideas...yeah no, fuck off you sectarian traitor, people like you are the reason the USSR had to be careful with security, because self-righteous faggots who wanted "my speshul socialism"
>>5334 Make some screencaps
>>5168 But Stalin was a monster. Why worship an ignoble corpse?
>>6044 Go back to reddit
>>5168 The funniest thing about Animal Farm is how they teach it in American schools and push trotskyism on kids who can't even begin to comprehend the theoretical implications of anything that's written, let alone what went down in the Russian revolution and civil war. They just learn that snowball is the "good one" who was unfairly cast out. Like imagine actually having such a juvenile view of history as an adult and then shoving it down children's throats.
If anyone wants to get their Jimmies rustled I suggest reading http://anti-dialectics.co.uk/AAA_Russian_workers_raised_not_one_finger.htm The person writing this is a Succ-dem who styles herself supposedly after Rosa Luxembourg and posts constantly on quora, and now has this blog. The link is a 2 year delayed response to someone elses response to her slander. She proceeds to cherrypick like a motherfucker. What annoys me however is her veiled hatred of Soviet people, which she manipulates into a claim that they were not going to support "FAKE" socialism.
>>6180 cringe
>>6180 Huh, so this is the missing link in the Britbong Trotskyist to NeoCon pipeline.
orwell was an anarchist, he hated MLs
>>6424 >everyone who hates ML are anarchists Hitler and Mussolini were anarchists?
>>6425 >Hitler and Mussolini were anarchists <If a square is a kind of rectangle then a rectangle is a square! What kind of asinine attempt at deflection is this?
I think "subversive" fiction like this is worse than blatant anti-communism, because the latter is easy to identify and clear in intent.
>>9808 >Orwell was never an anarchist <fought on the side of the Catalonians, and vehemently opposed republican and socialist forces other than them. Ok fag Also you're an idiot assuming that all posts in the sequence of replies are made by 2 people and not several people replying to one another.
>>5168 >1984 reflects both his vision of the USSR and Capitalist Britain It's more the latter than the former.
>>5308 I mean most people who read him do it's just that the Iron Heel is not the book everybody I guess at least in the western anglo-spehere gets to read. Instead they end up reading the Sea Wolf or Call of the Wild but even though they're good they're also the kind of books people don't really enjoy because people usually end up getting taught it in high school to be read once, have a book report typed up, and then forgotten.
>>9830 >the Sea Wolf or Call of the Wild <in American Schools Nigga people didn't even know who Jack London was in my school until I did my Senior thesis on him. White Fang is the only story truly famous enough for most of the US population and people don't remember the author is Jack London.
>>5168 christ the amount of mental gymnastics that tankie Stalin apologist kiddies do on a daily basis is astounding
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>Orwell succinctly BTFO's ML larp with simple books that can be comprehended by children >MLs are still SEETHING years and years later based Orwell
>>9811 Most of his writing straight up rip on anarchism. While in life he snitched out most anarchists he fought with to the British intelligence. Hating MLs doesn’t make one an anarchist. He’s Trot-adjacent at best.
>>9835 >BTFO's ML larp <books taking interesting story ideas and politcizing them because of butthurt over MLs is totally BTFO and not a massive shit under the table, smearing communism MLs and other real communists "seethe" because his works became obvious, convenient anti-communist cudgels by capitalists >>9834 Christ the amount of daily knee-jerk mental gymnastics of ankid/leftcom theorylets is mind-boggling. >>9836 He identified as lib-succ and later anarchist and later succ-dem. You're right in assessing him as a discount Trot, however he has at times adhered to anarchist mentalities. Regardless Orwell DID hate MLs.
>>5168 Orwell sucked on a personal level but his criticism of the USSR is not wrong. His writing is a little overwrought and indulgent IMO, which probably has something to do with ancap kiddies loving it.
>>9845 Here's an interesting question why did Orwell name the Trotsky stand in in Animal Farm Napoleon despite the common Trotskyist criticism of Stalin as Thermidororian?
>>9840 stalinist bootlicker seething
>>9851 brainless Trot ass-kisser dilating >>9845 > criticism of the USSR is not wrong Not ALL of it is wrong, but I never said he wasn't right 100%. That's the problem. He hides his anti-communism under a veneer of idealist disdain and sells it to liberals by mixing half-truths and lies as well as clear exaggerations that the uninformed take at face value. >>9846 Napoleon is the stand-in for Stalin. The Trot stand-in is Snowball. The entire banishment of him and resultant construction plans were a reference to the Leftcom accusation that "stalin stole Trotsky's' ideas (April Theses, 5 year plans etc.)"
>How did these counter revolutionary books become a symbol for counter revolutionaries? i wonder
Can someone tell me if https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Steps_to_Death is worth reading or is it just typical Western view of the Eastern Front?
>>9934 Kek
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>>9811 You're don't know what you are talking about, you should investigate a little before calling other fags and idiots >fought on the side of the Catalonians First of all, saying that "Catalonians = CNT = anarchists" is wrong. Catalonia was not controlled by the CNT, it was controlled by the Comittee of Anti-Fascist Militias, a organization created by the bourgeois Catalan regional government which contained representatives from the CNT, yes, but also from UGT (socialist trade union), PSUC (marxist-leninist political party, and the largest Catalan party for most of the war), ERC (social-democratic nationalist party) and many others. Also, the CNT and the FAI were not the same, saying that the CNT was a homogeneous and cohesive anarchist movement is wrong. The CNT was part of the III International for several years, for Christ sake. And George Orwell fought as an International Brigadier (a movement organized by the III International aka the spooky stalinists) in a POUM-lead militia. The Partido Obrero de Unificación Marxista wasn't a anarchist or catalan organization, it was a spanish marxist-leninist political party which internationally aligned itself with the Left Opposition, even if at 1936 it had broken off with Trotskyism. >and vehemently opposed republican and socialist forces other than them. Orwell himself says in Homage to Catalonia that he supported and defended the policies and political line of the PCE-PSUC during the war, and the slogan of "first the war, then the revolution". He also defines the situation and social feeling of the people of Madrid (controlled by the PCE and PSOE, marxist parties) as more revolutionary than Barcelona. It was only after the crisis of 1937 and after he abandoned Spain when he started attacking the communist movement. So basically stop calling names to people who know what they are talking about, and be a little less full of yourself. Also read a bit, it won't kill you.
>>10286 >Catalonia was not controlled by the CNT Its well known that Catalonia WAS controlled by the CNT-FAI, the anarcho-syndicalists. >Orwell himself says in Homage to Catalonia He later contradicts himself in the same book. >stop calling names to people who know what they are talking about <using the word idiot is "calling names" You sound childish considering that I wasn't the person who started the insults. >George Orwell fought as an International Brigadier And was thrown out of Spain for attacking its leadership because his idealism was offended by it and he didn't like listening to directions half the time. Regardless why are you replying to a finished conversation? Judging by the grammatical errors you just rushed a defense of Orwell because you want to defend him for some obscure reason, when the point was that he has always been, at best a lib-succ and at worst a rad-lib. He sided with the Anarchist faction because he didn't like 'authoriarian' tendencies of the socialists. So basically put some cream on your hurt arse and stop defending a flip-flopping scumbag idealogue, you don't get anything from it.
>>10287 >Its well known that Catalonia WAS controlled by the CNT-FAI, the anarcho-syndicalists. Dude, I'm a communist born and raised in Catalonia. I think I know what I'm talking about. The CNT-FAI refused to take direct control of the territories controlled by trade union militias in summer of 1936, instead putting themselves under the authority of the Generalitat de Catalunya. Lluís Companys, President de la Generalitat, broke a compromise between the different factions by creating the Comitè de Milícies Antifeixistes de Catalunya. The deputies in the Comitè were the following: >El Comitè va aplegar representants de les organitzacions sindicals i els partits del Front Popular, encara que el predomini era netament anarcosindicalista sota les figures de Joan García i Oliver, Buenaventura Durruti i Diego Abad de Santillán. Figuraren en el primer comitè central tres dirigents de la CNT (Buenaventura Durruti, Josep Asens Giol i Joan García Oliver), dos de la FAI (Diego Abad de Santillán i Aurelio Fernández), tres de la UGT (José del Barrio, Salvador González i Antonio López Raimundo), un del PSUC (Josep Miret i Musté), dos del Partit Obrer d'Unificació Marxista (POUM) (Josep Rovira i Canals i Julián Gorkin), tres d'ERC (Artemi Aiguader i Miró, Jaume Miravitlles i Navarra i Joan Pons), un de la Unió de Rabassaires (Josep Torrents i Rossell), un d'Acció Catalana Republicana (Tomàs Fàbregas Valls) i Lluís Prunés i dos militars, assessors de la Generalitat (Vicenç Guarner i Josep Guarner). This government body controlled the militias until they were fused into the Ejército Popular Republicano. After the dissolution of the Comitè, authority was returned to the government of the Generalitat de Catalunya. The Generalitat remained in charge until the aftermath of May 1937, after which the Generalitat was discredited and lost much of its authority, and leadership was centralized under the Spanish Government in València. >Judging by the grammatical errors Not everyone in /bunkerchan/ is American, anon. English is not my first language. >you just rushed a defense of Orwell because you want to defend him for some obscure reason kek, I don't actually like Orwell. I'm a pretty orthodox ml, the policies of the Partido Comunista de España were mostly correct, if anything my takeaway of the Spanish Civil War is that they didn't go far enough because they tried to compromise with Izquierda Republicana and the trade unions too much. But I'm trying to tell it as it actually happened, and what >>9811 says is just not true
>>10289 >is American, anon. English is not my first language. My point was not that you wrote erroneously, but that you were rushing to defend an indefensible person. >I don't actually like Orwell Then why bother? Your information about Catalonians and the Generalitat is valuable, but you make yourself sound contrite by trying to say Orwell believed such things too, when he's a contradictory swine who said whatever he felt was necessary at the moment.
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Orwell Repost Pic 2 related as to the nature of Orwell's writings Pic 1 related to posts >>10289 >>10286
>>5161 >How did these clearly liberal books become a symbol for libertarians FTFY
Orwell and his ilk are radlib LARPers who don't understand leftism but have contradictory "ideals" that sometimes coincide with them. Orwell was just a good writer, which is the only reason that he isn't as obvious.
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>Mollie disappeared. For some weeks nothing was known of her whereabouts, then the pigeons reported that they had seen her on the other side of Willingdon. She was between the shafts of a smart dogcart painted red and black, which was standing outside a public-house. A fat red-faced man in check breeches and gaiters, who looked like a publican, was stroking her nose and feeding her with sugar. Her coat was newly clipped and she wore a scarlet ribbon round her forelock. She appeared to be enjoying herself, so the pigeons said. None of the animals ever mentioned Mollie again. If any of you've read Animal Farm you'd be familiar with Mollie. She abandoned the Animal Farm to be taken care of by the humans. She says she loves being dressed up in pretty bows and looking pretty for humans. I find morbid amusement in the idea that she's fucking the fat red faced man for sugarcubes and pretty ribbons in her mane.
>>13456 >they left mollie out of the movie I was mad when i read the book and found this out.
>>5251 >And how do you know that 1984 reflects the USSR...? lol. just read the first chapter >Behind Winston’s back the voice from the telescreen was still babbling away about pig-iron and the overfulfilment of the Ninth Three-Year Plan
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Guys we have arrived to Orwell's 2+2=5. It reminds me of when Terrence Howard thought it was weird that 1x1=1, so he ‘discovered’ a new system where 1x1=2. The irony is that modern numerals are Indo-Arabic in origin... so much for western imperialism. It's like that parody "Jonah Ryan takes aim at Muslim Math" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=embMAtagQiU&feature=youtu.be
>>15707 >sakoid >on twittard no less Their opinion is retarded and only worthy to be laugh at.
>>15734 Are you referring to The original image or the post because the screencap is sakaist, the post is not.
I really like Nineteen Eighty-Four. It introduced me to a lot of interesting concepts in high school: how language relates to "political correctness", differences between the "lower" and "middle" classes and how terror/war and hedonistic pleasures (both the lack and abundance of it) are used to control them, how the mind can distort reality and how emotions can distort the mind. I've always viewed the book as a critique of some sort of "pure authoritarianism" rather than any specific society but it's pretty obvious that Orwell's personal experiences and ideology regarding the 20th century left are a part of it. Part of me wonders that if Nineteen Eighty-Four wasn't written as a hyper-pessemistic dystopia, it would be a very prescient analysis of the modern world. Telescreens are a great example of this, we pretty much have them minus a lot of the dystopian pretext. Orwell wasn't the first to come up with this stuff of course but he was clearly an intelligent person, if not a contradictory and often illogical one.
>>16230 what was his personal experience and ideology
>>16263 Fighting in Catalonia helped him see (what he thought was) both the best and the worse of the 20th century left, without those experiences I'm not certain that he would have been so critical of the state socialism of his time. The tense relationship between the anarchists and the communists appeared to affect him greatly, and from his perspective it was the communists who fueled it (however he emphasizes a distinction between those on the ground who he respected, and the higher ups in the party). I don't think he really had a concrete ideology as such besides some vague "democratic socialism", he wasn't much of a theory guy as far as I know. He was at the very least anti-Fascist and anti-Stalinist - Animal Farm exemplifies the latter. It's my personal opinion that Nineteen Eighty-Four tries to combine the two into some weird proto-Nazbol nightmare.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-54105672 >Official snitches on people who don't follow government propaganda >Groups of 6 or more are disallowed from gathering Hello 1984, I wish you'd never come
>>5207 Damn, I didn't know Orwell was a snitch. Why'd he do this?
>>16434 Literally read the list >Robeson and Padmore bad because he nigger >anyone in a party is bad because muh communist infiltration >Deutscher bad because he’s a kike >Dover bad because muh asiatic hordes Orwell pretty much is everything bad with British aristocrats trying leftist lifestylism. Which is ironic considering how much autistic screeching he did against proto-hipsters at the time for doing basically the same thing as him.
>>16434 Irrational fears, genuine contempt for commies, and being close dying from tuberculosis.
>>16435 Somewhere I've heard the phrase 'Weak people write the stories that Strong people live' You see this with Kipling's life story. His literary works are phenomenal and thoughtful but his own life was fairly miserable and hypocritical. He was so dismayed by his own weakeness that despite not having to, he enlisted his son to fight in the Great War, where he was killed. His wife went a little insane and never forgave him for it.


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