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Anonymous 10/12/2020 (Mon) 17:00:28 No. 17268
Is skin care bourgeois?
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Of course the same overly-ideologized neurotic people who think participating in capitalism at all should make you feel Christian-tier guilt also believe being trans is capitalist propaganda or whatever.
>>17377 Great rebuttal.
>>17371 >muh deterioration >muh hunter gatherers Animal products are no longer necessary in the year 2000+20; it is possible to meet all your dietary needs without animal products. Animal agriculture is not sustainable in a world with 8bn people, and it should be phased out under socialism. Liberation of the non-human proletariat will occur after the human proletariat, but it will happen. It will all be in the Green Five Year Plans. Your vehement opposal to veganism is reactionary, and it's kinda weird that you seem to love killing and eating other beings.
>>17379 Predisposal to acne is genetic retard.
>>17378 Gendered brain theory is reactionary nonsense and any Marxist biologist worth their salt would tell you the same. "Dysphoria" is literal nonsense - you don't feel bad about your body, you feel bad about your life and yourself as a person in general. You can see this in several new transfags, who basically think that transfaggotry would give them another, more successful, chance at life. It is, in a way, a cheat code in the West, where you will be granted special privileges and get the protection from the PC police and so on, and even some pity fucks on the side. That being said I don't see any reason why transfaggotry should be banned or persecuted or anything. Just don't expect people agreeing with your shit, just because it makes you feel better about chopping your dick off.
>>17380 >Animal products are no longer necessary in the year 2000+20 BIG if true, considering we ate animal products throughout 99.9% of our evolution and not a SINGLE human civilization went completely vegan like you retards do. Dude, just, please, just, answer this simple question for me: don't you see how these vegan advocates look like literal deteriorating ghouls? Because fucking everyone with eyes can see. You have to be beyond 50 layers of ideology to deny simple, observable facts. Vegans are ANYTHING BUT healthy. They are dying like flies at a very early age, they complain about a plethora of illnesses, their bodies can't regenerate at a proper rate, etc.
>>17381 You don't understand what predisposal means, you genius fucktard. It means "under condition X you are more likely to develop B" not that it's actually okay that you have acne as an adult. It's the same coping logic "fat activists" use, turning a predisposal to obesity a justification for obesity.
>>17386 not a SINGLE human civilization went completely socialist like you retards do.
>>17388 Thanks for answering the SINGLE question I asked you to answer. You are totally not high on ideology or anything.
>>17389 Billionaire capitalists are healthier than average prole, doesn't make it right. The assumption that animals are without rights and the illusion that our treatment of them has no moral significance is a positively outrageous example of human barbarity. Universal compassion is the only guarantee of morality.
>>17268 >Is using products to take better care of yourself bourg No. Being a mask-wearing faggot hiding under a layer of fake beauty because some girl-related rag told you, is bourg. TL;DR: Take care of our skin with products available, but don't buy into capitalist beauty-fads. Keep your skin clean, and body in order.
>>17282 /thread
>>17390 >still not answering the question Okay Mr. Ghandi, enjoy your spooks then.
Was this thread on /leftypol and moved to hobby? HOW did we get 116 posts in 1 day?
>>17268 My wife's play mate swears by shea butter. Really keeps the skin healthy and he recommended a good brand. The skin is an organ that needs to be taken care of
>>17321 Based
>>17399 silence cuck
>>17399 >My wife's play mate <shea butter This sounds like some copy-pasta about leftcucks from /pol/, no offense.
>>17403 None taken, we all lead different lives. Pay no attention to them >>17402 Rude
make sure to insert shea butter deep into you anal cavity so that the skin on your face will improve i did this recipe 500 times, trust me
>>17399 >My wife's play mate >play mate Is your wife 6?
>>17404 dont be a cuck then dipass
If anything lack of proper hygiene is bourgeois. It's not technically a physical need, so why should proles get to take care of themselves? Only porky should get to luxuriate in things that raise quality of life! Only let prole have hygiene once we figure out how to commodify it. Until then let them squat in crowded tenements and shit in the street. When we colonize all the foreigners, let them recoil in disgust at our unwashed masses. This will give us a tactical advantage.
>>17283 >You can get all the skin care you will ever need from rice. explain please
>>17268 No, but the complete focus of medical R&D and the advertising industry towards such a product (which have extremely high profit margins compared to other pharmaceutical products) is inherently bourgeois. Skincare should be considered a medical treatment and not be commoditized to hell and back.
>>17296 >using products t.soyboy i shower with water only and use my god given fingers to pick out my earwax and i use my spit for aftershave utterly bougie decadence using 3 whole products
>>17387 Retarded take buddy. By the same logic you can criticize bald people for not having taken care of themselves.
>>17268 Too many people itt gene privileged assholes that never had skin problems like atophy, seborrheic dermatitis and acne. Shut the fuck up
>>17318 >That's what daddy R.D.W. taught me. Evidently you don't actually listen to papa Wolff very much, because that's not actually what he argues.
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>>17529 The intensity of people arguing that he's some kind of marksoc or mutualist reformer is wild since he criticizes markets pretty often and speaks about revolution as a real possibility and historical examples positively as good for the workers. Almost like his project educating normies about ecnomics is a problem for the bourgeoisie, but he handles respectability/optics enough that smearing him directly to normies would make him look more reasonable, so they have to go for the purity angle and make shit up.
>>17533 He literally released a video just the other day about how to do centralized planning with democratic control. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H3Ch6VXL7Q
>>17383 >chopping your dick off like clockwork
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>>17383 >Gendered brain theory is reactionary nonsense and any >Marxist biologist worth their salt would tell you the same. There is mixed evidence as to if gender dysphoria and transgender identity are caused by exposure to hormonal fluctuations in the brain. Additionally, a discontinued hormonal medicine meant to induce early birth in pregnant women has been linked with a greater chance of AMAB children being born that develop a transgender identity. >you don't feel bad about your body, you feel bad about your life and yourself as a person in general. I've felt like I was meant to be a girl, and had crippling gender dysphoria since before puberty. I tried repressing but this intense disgust and anxiety about my body and people's (positive) reactions to my physically male traits and societal role grew unfettered and became unbearable to the point of dread every time I got a glimpse of myself or how people saw me. I was suicidal every single day. >who basically think that transfaggotry would give them another, more successful, chance at life. I spent so much time and energy engaging in performative masculinity. I was a very attractive, tall, dominant male as far as social roles go. I was treated with an unearned amount of respect and attraction from male and female peers, simply because of my stature and looks (and I guess because being constantly depressed reads as masculinity for some people. lol) Logically, I knew coming out would end the privileged position that I held in society. As well as ostracize me to many family and friends, and cause me to lose all that respect I held with others. >It is, in a way, a cheat code in the West, where you will be granted special privileges and get the protection from the PC police and so on Nope. I live in a relatively conservative area in the west (not saying where) I used to get called a faggot all the time early in transition, and even attacked by randos and harrassed by cops a couple of times. I get aggressively validated sometimes by overly performative liberals, but it usually feels pretty awkward and patronizing. >and even some pity fucks on the side Nah. I had no problems finding sex before transition, and even now when I'm not as attractive, (could be worse) all the time str8 bois will thirst after me and then devalue me when they realise I'm trans. >that being said I don't see any reason why transfaggotry should be banned or persecuted or anything. 2woke >Just don't expect people (((agreeing))) with your shit I already expect bullying from assholes and pwnage by facts and logic from internet ben shapiros that think trans people are mentally ill and 'wrong' or whatever, but >just because it makes you feel better about chopping your dick off. None of you seem serious about your arguments, it's just the same dumb shit social reactionaries make up about gay people or blacks or whatever. PS you kind of sound like a salty incel that needs someone to punch down on or something, which I can respect, but why don't you pick on someone more deserving? Like fashoids or whatever?
>>17579 >mixed evidence as to if gender dysphoria and transgender identity are caused by exposure to hormonal fluctuations in the brain. True, but it's fairly conclusive that the overall cause of dysphoria is environmental impacts on parents (epigenics), on a pregnant mother and on the child as a toddler. The very fact that the "gay froggo" meme has actual evidence validating it gives this more impact. The amount of "gender" dysphoria has been ever increasing in the past decades, and it's not really secret that this corresponds to a rise in estrogenic plastics and hormone-affecting medicine, almost always in countries like the USA. >crippling gender dysphoria since before puberty I'd say you're one of the real cases of gender dysphoria, which are far more rare than people realize. More often its hormonal teens with depression who are just sexually confused and haven't had their pubertal hormones run their course and are depressed by the alienating nature of capitalism. Your story indicates a clear difference to those kinds of people. I feel that the posers and edgy teens who engage in this are the reason why trans-people have a lot of trouble, because they're a loud minority that provoke a lot of (violent) reaction from normal people by using their "trans" status to be utter radlib cunts spreading schizophrenic idpol. PS Also not the original poster, just replying.
>>17579 >None of you seem serious about your arguments I mean there isn't much to argue. The short response is clearly just a lengthy "fuck off" and not a fully-fleshed out argument. Also let's not derail this thread with this discussion.
>>17579 Not that guy, but I have a few questions. I'm cis and trying to get a better idea of this issue. It's all in good faith, I won't go >muh dick chopping >Chemicals I think until there is more quality evidence to support this it shouldn't be entertained. To say that chemicals in the brains are the reason for the social ills we see is silly at the very least, and extremely reactionary at the worst. Would you say depression cannot be cured without drugs? (i.e. outside intervention). Then why can't dysphoria be treated by what I suppose is a slow process of rationalizing the problem and understanding it. In a similar way leftists expect comrades to 'let go' of any nationalism, which is an identity, should we expect the same of gender? To relinquish any identity that doesn't actually 'exist'? As a cis person my understanding of what makes someone trans is >A contradiction between the identity you feel you have on the inside, and the one assigned onto you by the outside But what makes one 'feel' like a woman? Did/do you actually feel like a woman, or did you just have extreme hate/anxiety of being a man, and therefore wanted the 'other' option? Also what is your opinion of transrace? I have been unable to see a difference in the two trans'. They both seek an 'idea' of an identity that doesn't exist, there is no essential set of characteristics that determines a woman, in the same way as there is no characteristic set that define a black person. However transracial people have been widely mocked (I know trans people have as well, but there is at least a movement for trans folk). >>17581 Oh no we can't derail the all important question: Is skin care booj
As for the question at hand, Is skin care bourgeois? No. Of course not. I think that every communist should try and become the best person that they wish to be, before and after the revolution. This includes taking care of the health of their skin, and aiming to make themselves attractive. This carries the benefit of increased self confidence and pragmatic concerns in public perception. What is bourgeois is the vapid, cold, capitalist ideal of beauty, and the beauty industry. Beauty is not fair, and people should not feel insufficient and restricted by a lack of beauty. This insecurity is the bread and butter of the beauty industry, as >>17269 alluded to. Communists should be beautiful, but not tethered down by shallow and unattainable standards of beauty. Instead we should be inspired to become the best versions of our selves, and grow and nurture our bodies in admiration of the marvel of human life. I see skincare as a natural extension of this appreciation and nurturance of the human form.
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>>17580 >The amount of "gender" dysphoria has been ever increasing in the past decades, and it's not really secret that this corresponds to a rise in estrogenic plastics and hormone-affecting medicine Interesting, I'd like to hear about more of these plastics and medicine that have estrogenic effects. >almost always in countries like the USA. Is there any evidence that gender dysphoria is increasing in certain areas? If so I would assume it could be because of greater acceptance, no? >I'd say you're one of the real cases of gender dysphoria, which are far more rare than people realize. I don't have any numbers, but I suspect that most people who transition have gender dysphoria. >More often its hormonal teens with depression who are just sexually confused and haven't had their pubertal hormones run their course and are depressed by the alienating nature of capitalism. I can see how the alienation of late stage capitalism can lead to identity confusion, and in theory might make a cis person think that they must be transgender. However as far as I'm aware, most people who transition do not de-transition or regret transitioning. >Your story indicates a clear difference to those kinds of people. One of the good ones lol >I feel that the posers and edgy teens who engage in this are the reason why trans-people have a lot of trouble, because they're a loud minority Emphasis on minority >that provoke a lot of (violent) reaction from normal people by using their "trans" status to be utter radlib cunts spreading schizophrenic idpol. The way I see it is that these people are a small subset of all trans people, and are essentially cherry-picked by transphobes in order to build something of a strawman, in addition to these utter radlib cunts (lol) that are spreading schizo idpol because that's the bread and butter of liberal sensationalism in the msm. PS no worries >>17581 >I mean there isn't much to argue. The short response is clearly just a lengthy "fuck off" and not a fully-fleshed out argument. Yeah I guess this is something of an exercise in intellectual masturbation for me, but I'd like to expose them for the flimsy disingenuous ground that they stand on, that often permeates their character. >Also let's not derail this thread with this discussion. Find out your skin type (dry/oily/combination) and keep your routine simple. Be gentle to your purty skin even if your a boi. Also retinol works pretty well to rejuvenate your skin, but please do not bask in allah's holy light before washing your face again, for it is haram. >>17584 Not that guy, but I have a few questions. I'm cis and trying to get a better idea of this issue. It's all in good faith, I won't go >muh dick chopping Wew thank you haha. >>Chemicals >I think until there is more quality evidence to support this it shouldn't be entertained. To say that chemicals in the brains are the reason for the social ills we see is silly at the very least, and extremely reactionary at the worst. I think in the case of maternal or natal exposure to certain chemicals increasing the chances of a child experiencing gender dysphoria, that there is some evidence, as mentioned above. >Would you say depression cannot be cured without drugs? (i.e. outside intervention). In the case of depression I would say no, there are other avenues of treatment. However this is not the case for all health conditions which affect the mind. Like say, parkinsons (aside from surgery?). Or perhaps leveling out the mood swings of severe bipolar disorder. >Then why can't dysphoria be treated by what I suppose is a slow process of rationalizing the problem and understanding it. It's a good question, and the medical community has tried psychotherapy for centuries as an alternative to transition, however it has met with no success as far as I can tell. And today the only cure known for gender dysphoria is transition. >should we expect the same of gender? To relinquish any identity that doesn't actually 'exist'? Gender roles are deeply ingrained in social interactions and common understanding, while subject to change. There is also a correlation between levels of sex hormones and an effect on personality and physique for instance, while these also vary among different people, masculine and feminine, they tend to fall roughly into categories of male, female, or androgynous. So yes I think you could say that gender does exist in some instance, but that it is pliable to change, and should not be allowed to hold anyone back from their full potential And yes nationalism is a disease and a false consciousness. However I think that it is worth considering the critiques made by someone such as Joseph Stalin, who pointed out that people who live in a certain area tend to share customs and a local culture, unique to their geographical location. Which, while not needing to be the basis of geographical boundaries, deserves recognition and incorporation into internationalism, or something to that effect. >As a cis person my understanding of what makes someone trans is >>A contradiction between the identity you feel you have on the inside, and the one assigned onto you by the outside I's say that is pretty accurate, and I'd add a feeling of wrongeness about the sexual traits of the body you develop is a hallmark of gender dysphoria. >but what makes one 'feel' like a woman? Did/do you actually feel like a woman, or did you just have extreme hate/anxiety of being a man, and therefore wanted the 'other' option? Yes, good question. I'd say that I felt that I was a girl from that very early age, and my parents and everyone else were mistaken about my gender. I was initially very confused about having a dick lol, when I was a very young child I was sure that the doctor simply got my sex wrong, and told my parents the wrong thing. As I got older, growing up with no access to information about transitioning, I came to accept that I wished more than anything to be a girl, but that it was impossible. So I attempted to be the best boy, the best man that I could. But My dysphoria and persistent feelings of pain and dread about my gender only continued to grow late into my puberty. I internalized very negative feelings about masculinity in myself and others until well into my transition, whereas now I don't see masculinity as inherently negative at all, and appreciate a lot of aspects of it even. In other people of any gender and even in myself to some extent. Also what is your opinion of transrace? It seems ridiculous to me. I don't see a reason for it other than internalized negative or positive opinions about a certain race, or perhaps some personal preference. This is with the exception of marginalized ethnic minorities whom 'transition' to be perceived as a race that is received more positively by their wider community, such as lighter skinned Black people pretending to be Caucasian in America. I have sympathy for these cases, however unfortunate. >Oh no we can't derail the all important question: Is skin care booj I think what we really need to ask though is if skin care is a jewish trick
>>17587 >plastics and medicine that have estrogenic effects Ever heard of BPAs? That's just the tip of the iceburg of plastic related issues. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3222987/ TL;DR: Most plastic products, especially those used in water bottles and baby products are full of chemicals that affect the endocrine systems of people among other things. Also for the Gay Frogs: xenoestrogens in food packaging, additives and agricultural pesticides are so widespread that porky is well aware sexual ambiguity will become far more prevalent in the future; using LGBTQIA+ 'movements' as an ideological cope to mitigate the backlash against the biochemical warfare we're subjected to. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=xenoestrogens https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=bisphenol+a https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=atrazine https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/9/17/17841518/low-sperm-count-semen-male-fertility Not even a """conspiracy theory""" at this point. https://www.hormone.org/your-health-and-hormones/endocrine-disrupting-chemicals-edcs https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1281309/ https://www.naturalnews.com/2017-01-16-alex-jones-is-right-atrazine-pesticide-proven-to-be-a-powerful-chemical-castrator-that-turns-male-frogs-into-homosexuals-see-the-science.html http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/10/homosexuality-may-be-caused-chemical-modifications-dna >any evidence that gender dysphoria is increasing in certain areas Gender dysphoria and the whole presence of trans development is a wholly Western one, we don't have nearly the same numbers in any other country outside of Thailand, and those are their own set of moral dilemmas of why they choose to be ladyboys. >most people who transition have gender dysphoria There is a literal subreddit dedicated to de-transitioned people, who talk about being pressured into this. One of the biggest examples of this happening is the Reimer Brother experiment with Dr. Money, a pedophilic hack 'scientist' who pushed this whole ideological mess in the first place. >most people who transition do not de-transition or regret transitioning Considering trans-suicide rates... I'm fairly sure, that most people don't get the chance to complain. - https://old.reddit.com/r/detrans/ - http://thefederalist.com/2018/08/31/explosive-ivy-league-study-repressed-for-finding-transgender-kids-may-be-a-social-contagion/ >One of the good ones And I'm glad. I don't mind trans people at all. My problem is with the flamboyant cunts who think being trans = being a self-important idpol prick and give anyone who is trans a bad name. >cherry-picked by transphobes I don't think they're cherry-picked, they basically write the /pol/'s rants for them. >the bread and butter of liberal sensationalism in the msm Fuckin' this. >do not bask in allah's holy light before washing your face again, for it is haram. Top kek >>17584 >we can't derail the all important question Whether or not it is important or not, point is thread derailment is not a good idea, especially for idpol discussions.
>>17587 Parkinsons has a physical effect though. I believe we can study how it is caused because of this, however we can't study depression. We can't FIND the depression because it doesn't 'exist'. I would say the same for the 'feeling' of an identity, but this discussion is to get a better idea of this notion. >So yes I think you could say that gender does exist in some instance What you've described are gender roles, which of course exist and have measurable impacts. However the identity of male or female doesn't exist strictly since it assumes a set of attributes which are 'female'. What is masculine and fem is arbitrary and up for the current society (pink used to be masc for example). If you want to fit into current gender roles you could just do the cooking and cleaning, rather than changing your body to 'fit' your 'identity'. I don't feel male. I do have moments of 'masc' and 'fem' respectively, however I don't associate these with an identity other than myself. To associate a 'male' or 'female' identity I must realise a set of qualities that make women a women intrinsically (and there are none). This is where I struggle with truly understanding the trans position. I understand we may have to tolerate some forms of nationalism in some factor, as our job is difficult and will result in inevtiable compromises. I'm kinda trying to just determine what we 'should' do. As society would never consider someone who is extreme nationalistic as having a mental illness. And no leftist would try cure it with medicine. We seek an ideological victory over nationalism. I sympathize a lot with your story. Thank you very much for sharing. What do you think of this current movement around "you don't need dysphoria to be trans"? The main fear I have regarding the movement (this isn't from a place of naivety) is the 'forcing' kids into transitioning and shit. There is a huge 'if you're not 100% with us you hate us and are a nazi' thing around the trans movement. I remember being a teen and I can pinpoint times where I would question my identity and who I 'was' (but I think this is a false dichotomy raised in capitalist society, I simply grew up to be myself rather than a 'type' of person) specifically where I dressed as a girl. I could see myself in this vulnerable position and being intercepted by forward trans activists telling me to 'hatch' or something. >>17599 This guy hints on this too. I understand there is a lot of scaremongering around this, but it is a real occurrence. >Transrace seems ridiculous >I don't see a reason for it other than internalized negative or positive opinions about a certain race, or perhaps some personal preference. How is this different to transgender? The cases you have sympathy for are like women transitioning to be men for the social benefits, it however isn't really an argument for how these are different. They are both individuals taking control of their 'identities'. My point is that transrace seems ridiculous, it's kinda a joke. However this was transgenderism 100 years ago. It was completely unheard of. But we should be able to determine what is and isn't "right" ideologically. So if someone comes out as transrace we can determine whether they are worth solidarity or not, like how the early trans movement started. If someone came up to you as a white person and said "i feel black inside..." you'd go >wtf? what's black? just because you like hip hop doesn't make you black and you'd be right. But how is this any different to changing ones gender?
Nigga who tf cares? Go outside
>>17272 Then that is not skincare but cosmetics...
bros is shampoo a meme? my hair doesn't really smell if i don't clean it with shampoo for a week and it holds up great and don't need to use any product gel is the grease bad for my hair's long term health? i still run it through water everyday but just not shampoo >>17324 is that really a conspiracy? please explain i hear that stuff often and don't know if it is true or not
>>17618 I wash with shampoo but use the minimum amount and every other time I shower. Same thing with soap. Losing oil and drying out your skin/damaging pores, is very possible, because modern soap and shampoo is literal detergent unless you specifically order organic stuff. You're just fine.
>>17618 >really a conspiracy No, soap-shills who think in dogmatics of "either you use soap or you don't" like to claim this, but frankly being mindful with soaps when washing is fairly normal.
>>17618 I only use shampoo when I actually have something nasty I need to wash out of my hair. Otherwise I just rinse it thoroughly and avoid shampoo because it makes my hair a pain to manage after washing out its oils.
>>17618 I had about 2 years where I washed my hair maybe once a month. Everyday with water though. However with longer hair the greasiness I found a bit unbearable and unattractive. Although I agree it definitely is a meme for most men with relatively short hair.
>>17636 Also guys please use conditioner sometimes, it makes your hair look a lot healthier and more attractive imo
>>17618 Not really an option in areas where the tap water is "hard". It'll make your hair extremely stiff after a while and your scalp gets covered in gunk. You can off course keep some vinegar handy, but at that point why not just go whole hog and use actual shampoo

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