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Samurai thread Anonymous 05/02/2020 (Sat) 21:32:37 No. 2298
Was the Meiji restoration and "restoring power to the emperor" a good or bad thing in 18th century Japan for the peasants? It marked the upper class revolution that caused the samurai feudal system to transition into a capitalist system. (Which ultimately turned into a racist imperialist empire that tried to invade and oppress all of its neighbors in Asia in a sort of fascist system, and as Japan lost the war the people starved and suffered greatly.) I just found this photograph btw. Samurai didn't look nearly as impressive as I thought they would, and that hairdo is "objectively ugly." There were a lot of peasant revolutions/movements that tried to go against the samurai but they all ultimately failed so no one except historians talk about them. Unfortunately too, the people who study Japanese history appear to be mostly weebs who romanticize the samurai so much that you never get to hear about the peasents' movements.
It was a good thing, the samurai were fucking dogshit, they could hack you to death in the streets for shit as retarded as not bowing in their presence, fuck them
>>2298 Why do they look black?
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>>2300 Well, before the Finno-Korean Hyperwar, everyone on Earth was black. It wasn't until the old world was shattered with nuclear hellfire that melanin-deficiency began to afflict people. Korea and East Korea (now Japan) were some of the single blackest, darkest places on the planet, but obviously that changed after the hyperwar. There was then a concerted effort over the course of thousands of years for the melanin-deficient to exterminate the melanin-enhanced individuals within Japan, and the East in general. These are some of the very last melanin-enriched East-Asians ever witnessed, the Imperial Japanese finished the job once-and-for-all, thus eliminating the Kuronipponjin. Oh, also it's a shitty old photograph.
>>2300 Because they were, wh*te boi. Glorious niggon steel folded over 9000 times.
The samurai's obsession with honor and pride was a hollow facade. They were just warlord bandits who controlled everything with violence and often killed at whim, at least prior to the Tokugawa Shogunate which resulted in the Edo Period and was a time of relative peace and prosperity in feudal Japan. During the Edo period the samurai, with no people to fight and no lords to die for (other than the Shogun who already controlled everything), produced lots of neat art and poetry and had a weird fixation with the corruption of money and hatred of merchants. Of course that all went away with the bourgeois revolutions which became increasingly necessary as both commercialization and the power of the merchant class increased. The Meiji Restoration was only a good thing in the sense that it accelerated industrialization. Industrialization however is a mixed bag during its period of adoption in every country. During the periods of rapid industrialization peasants are displaced into the cities and become less self sufficient although they have more access to material goods they're still piss poor and work in horrendous conditions. I guess it was good as the rapid industrialization of the Meiji period gave Japan some measure of productive independence from the West, although that was destroyed when they lost WWII.
>>2300 They weren’t created by Yakub
>>2298 Well it goes as it goes. Capitalism is a more progressive historical force over Feudalism. As Feudalism was over the Slave-Empire. And as Socialism will be over Capitalism. Meiji restoration was in a sense 'bad' for the peasants as Capitalism deprecates their class as the Proletariat begin to rise, but beyond a certain point Proletariat life is superior to peasant life, and the peasants in Japan lived particularly rough with the autism of the samurai.
>>2298 Various samurai and feudal elements formed into the zaibatsu- corporate monopolies- so it was a step forward in similarity how the West has gone forward. There's so much more to go.
>>2300 Lol I think it's the limitation of the photography technique
>>2300 I think it is a black & white photo that someone colored the clothing, map and weapons.
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I have been meaning to ask this, it is good that you asked OP, so what are some good marxist historiographies of the meji restoration and the japanese empire?
I think it's better to compare it to the oligarchical revolutions that overthrew Greek "tyrants" during the classical period. The Shogunate was a highly centralized government answering to one person. While that person was himself abusive, he kept the forces of other would-be oligarchs in check through an iron fist. When the Meiji "restoration" happened, they didn't really trade one ruler for another ruler by giving the emperor all the power. Instead much of the same traditional observations of the emperor's power were restored while a massively corrupt republican government formed. Instead, these oligarchs of the shogunate era who had previously been kept somewhat in check were unleashes on the lower classes and a massive frenzy of competition (at workers' expense) through the markets and government between these new emerging oligarchs ensued.
>>2298 >It marked the upper class revolution that caused the samurai feudal system to transition into a capitalist system Wrong take. The samurai were the upper class in this period, and the Boshin war which preceded the Meiji restoration, as well as the Satsuma rebellion which is traditionally seen to mark the decline of that class, was led on both sides by the samurai. The Meiji restoration was not so much a social revolution as it was a political conflict between two regional and ideological sections of the samurai over who which of them would get to lead Japan through its transition into the global capitalist economy. Because at this point that transition was already well under way and had been inevitable since the moment the emerging capitalist economies to the west began expanding abroad. The consequences of the Meiji restoration then is not so much whether Japan would undergo that transition or not, or whether the samurai class would decline - because that was gonna happen either way, and there's no saying whether a reformed shogunate would have done something similar - but rather what role Japan itself would have in that transition and what its position in the world would be afterwards. Historically, that position was as the sole, sovereign industrial power in the orient. So the question is not so much whether the Meiji restoration was good or bad for the peasants, but whether it was better for the common folk of a country in this period to be a subject of a sovereign and industrial region of the capitalist world economy, or a colonised or exploited one. The answer to that is fairly obvious. >Which ultimately turned into a racist imperialist empire that tried to invade and oppress all of its neighbors in Asia in a sort of fascist system, and as Japan lost the war the people starved and suffered greatly Unless you're a hardcore historical determinist, that outcome was not prewritten by the events of the Meiji restoration, and it's a silly way of thinking about history. There are a lot more factors involved in what happened than simply this or that emperor coming into power a hundred years ago. >I just found this photograph btw. Samurai didn't look nearly as impressive as I thought they would, and that hairdo is "objectively ugly." That's because the image of samurai that you have been given is that of the armoured, fighting samurai, back when this class was expected to form the main fighting force of an army, and deliberately pictured as people with great power and martial strength, whereas what you see in the picture are regular people with archaic - and to you, silly - dress and hair. As for "ugly", that is subjective. To them and many others in that society, that hair and dress had special significance and marked them as members of a social elite. I'm sure some of them would have found your hair equally ugly.
>>2309 I can't seem to find any good Marxist works on Japanese history, but it seems difficult to find any manner of Communist Japanese literature in English. It seems what there is in Japanese is woefully undertranslated to English. There are only even two Japanese authors on the Japanese marxists.org lang-section. The Chinese language version of the site actually has a few more, though some of the Chinese translations of Kobayashi also seem to have Japanese in them and alternative page-to-page. I think the first two deal more with theory and history, but much of the works from the Japanese are proletarian literature. In Japanese: Tosaka Jun: https://www.marxists.org/nihon/tosaka/index.htm Yamakawa Hitoshi: https://www.marxists.org/nihon/yamakawa/index.htm in Chinese: Kobayashi Takiji: https://www.marxists.org/chinese/reference-books/kobayashi-takiji/index.htm https://www.marxists.org/chinese/reference-books/kani-koosen-2009/index.htm Tokunaga Sunao: https://www.marxists.org/chinese/reference-books/tokunaga-sunao/dyz1928-1929/index.htm Maybe you can work from these to scour for English lang translations? The English marxists.org doesn't even have any of the Japanese authors, so I assume these would not be easy pdfs to come by even if translations exist.
>>2312 Japanese history is already a fairly niche field in the english-speaking world, and I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't any english-speaking marxist historians who have written much about this period.
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>>2313 >I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't any english-speaking marxist historians who have written much about this period. Gavin Walker's been pretty busy. His forthcoming book on the Japanese New Left has been postponed like twice already iirc.
>>2300 It could either be because 1) The photograph and the lighting makes them look darker 2) They were more exposed to outdoors and sunlight back in those days constantly so there skin tanned over constant UV exposure 3) Were Okinawan or some shit 4) Mixture of all the above
>>2298 I'm really uneducated about Japanese history. But wasn't Japan in a state of disarray before the Meiji empire? It's my understanding it paved the way for some form of democracy at least.
Appropriating this as the general Japanese thread. Anyone here with a good understanding of Japanese history (and likely the language), could you explain the February 26th Incident and Kita Ikki? It seems that they genuinely were critical of Capitalism from what I've gleaned, but they were like unironic Nazbols? As in they didn't even necessarily deem themselves Fascists, but a Marxist outgrowth more Marxist than the Communists. Kind of like Anti-Euro-Imperialist Pan-Asian-Imperialist Social-Fascist Nazbol Communists with characteristics of Esperantism? Who disliked the Reactionary Imperialism of the Japanese Bouj, but wanted to do their own 'Progressive' Imperialism? That's how it seems to me upon a light reading of what's easily visible in English, once again if anyone is actually knowledgeable I'd appreciate some input.
>>2317 Bumping with the hope someone will answer these questions.
>>2302 You can fold over this dick 9000 times boi!
>>2298 Does anyone know the origin of the "the jew fears the samurai" video?
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>>2298 I better not catch you talking shite about mah nigga Hijikata. Fucking Satchou bastard.
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>>2309 Something about this picture bothers me. I think its the women's dresses. Just don't fit.
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>>2302 >niggon you fucker
As a period of rapid industrialisation, is the Meiji Restoration comparable to the early years of Soviet industrialisation?
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What's the true story behind this picture? >>2322 Yeah, it's the faces, I think. I don't know if the women are European or Japanese.
>>2325 Nationalist kills Communist with a sword so Japan can be safe for American business interests.
>>2317 >>2318 >February 26th Incident and Kita Ikki Contrary to what might be promulgated in contemporary historeography with relation to the attempted coup, there was no particular unique quality to the coup of the 26th of February. A small and particularly well-acquainted junior officers corps was gleaned from imperial staff college in an atmosphere of profound fear for the possibility of Japan falling into the sphere of influence of European powers as a suzerainty (being a colony was not likely). What ended up occurring was a common manifestation of a powerful factional trend in the military of Imperial Japan within which the totalizing philosophy of Ikki was popular - a buildup in popularity largely predicted by the enacted prescripts of the 'Imperial Rescript on Education', which itself was created in the wake of The Freedom and Peoples Rights era. Popular conceptions of a national identity were constructed on the basis of anti-western Imperialism, common identification with Asian states and peoples, and a collaborationism between labor and state-backed firms, national and privatized. Examples of the relative friendly demeanor towards central planning and Marxist trends in economics comes from their implementation in the Manchurian expansions (particularly in the state credit backed Mantetsu railway company). There was very little to differ on between the military hardliners and the class of Japanese bourgeoisie in the Zaibatsu, but for that the necessary social control needed to enact major imperial restructuring in Asia would impair the capacity of domestic capital to freely reproduce itself. The idea of a 'progressive' imperialism at work is most definitely a contemporary reading, as there was certainly no real progressive element to economic vassal-ization or being subject to gross and flagrant imperial aggression. The instances of critique of Capatalism that seem so particularly genuine is in the (recently rehabilitated amongst leftists) abhorrence of the characteristic 'decadence' of 'western capitalism', which threatened the proper organization of the state, its institutions, and the general social polity (known by the amalgam term of the Kokutai). Differentiation between the ideological prerogatives of the military factions, civilian ultranationalists, liberals, and other contemporaneous groups in Imperial Japan (particularly from late Meiji onwards) is definitely a meaningful and worthwhile undertaking, but in making more than tactical or analytical distinctions, we should not take the 'progressive' imperialists at their word. It was simply vying for a seizure of power by a hegemonic military structure, and they were overtly and passionately anti-communist in any and every meaningful capacity.
>>2326 >be emperor worshiping mentally ill teenage nationalist who wants to remove gaijin >kills the only dude wanting to genuinely remove the gaijin
>>2328 Rightcuckoldry, the highest form of cuckoldry
>>2326 >>2328 On point. Kenzaburo Oe wrote a book (divided in two parts) about him, and it's impossible to find in Japan AFAIK because fascists threatened his editor.
>>2330 >Kenzaburo Oe wrote a book What's it called?
>>2331 The first part is called Seventeen, the second part is Seiji shōnen shisu (death of a young militant), I'm not sure if this one was translated in English.
>>2326 Would you mind elaborating on that? Whilst lurking /pol/ I've seen posts highlighting how this bloke "saved" Japan from communism, but in typical /pol/ fashion it was mostly vague.
>>2333 JP fascists are huge bootlickers that complain about chinese, koreans and Japanese that disagree with the government but are totally fine with US troops raping Japanese girls and dealing drugs.
>>2333 Classic example of Schrodinger's nationalism, killing the actual anti-globalists in the name of US hegemony
>>2298 >Samurai didn't look nearly as impressive as I thought they would, and that hairdo is "objectively ugly." I guess if we had photos of medieval knights, they wouldn't look impressive either. I remember watching a documentary many years ago and, while almost everyone is convinced they all wore cool ass shiny armours, actually only very rich ones could afford one because its cost was equivalent to some supercar of today. Yet, decades of films, tv shows, books with fancy covers etcetera convinced many people things looked like the Lord of the Rings or things like that. The truth is those were just people belonging to a class with the monopoly of armed force and many of them were piss poor.
>>2337 The samurai hairdo wasn't supposed to look cool, it was to make it easier to distinguish them from the commoners, just like monks who shaved their heads. >The truth is those were just people belonging to a class with the monopoly of armed force and many of them were piss poor. Same for samurai. Many of them received only a meager salary eroded by inflation and had little to no chance for a promotion. Those a bit more fortunate made money thanks to their artistic skills, like Hiroshige.
>>2338 I re-read my own post and it comes across as confusing. In truth, I wasn't pointing to the haircut, more to the general fact they didn't look like some kind of Hollywood supermacho depiction. Also, I was talking about western knights throughout - the Lord of the Rings reference it's an obvious nod to western fantasy - and how they would have looked equally scrumpy except for the last sentence that you qouted where I'm referring back to Japanese warriors, even though the same concept could apply to western knight, thus the understandable confusion. Btw, in the last centuries of their existence, plenty of merchants were effectively richer and more influential than them and often unattached, wandering warriors would be hired as bodyguards by them. Also, people with money could buy influence and corrupt functionaries and even though they were officially lower in the social hierarchy, they were immensely better off.
>>2338 >The samurai hairdo wasn't supposed to look cool, it was to make it easier to distinguish them from the commoners, just like monks who shaved their heads. Looking at it I suspect it's actualy for cushioning a helmet
>>2340 It was born for this reason, but it soon became a status symbol. IIRC, Oda Nobunaga was criticized because when he was young he refused to arrange his hair in a top-knot.
>>2337 >>2338 I've always been convinced that the shaved pate shit was all about powerful old men with male-pattern baldness projecting their look onto young men to make them seem indistinguishable from them.
>>2342 That's... oddly specific.
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>>2333 In the aftermath of WWII, much of the old left in Japan found itself born again through a combined opposition to US Imperialism. 1960 was a very important year, as there was intense debate over the Anpo Treaty. The treaty itself was originally ratified in 1951, but proposed revisions in 1959 would have allowed for the construction of more US military bases on the Japanese mainland. All of this was being done in the name of "mutual cooperation and security" in East Asia, with the United States as its caretaker. The leftist opposition that Inejiro Asanuma was a part of pointed out that this revision clearly called into question Japan's sovereignty, and held mass demonstrations against its inclusion. This was a big deal: trade unions, student organizations and political parties alike were united under the one goal of stopping this treaty from being signed. Inejiro Asanuma was a member of the Japan Socialist Party, which in the 1958 general election had gained a large enough majority in the National Diet to stop Prime Minister Nobusuke Kishi (Shinzo Abe's grandfather) from amending Article 9 of the the constitution, which would have otherwise greatly expanded the powers and capabilities of the newly formed JSDF (albeit under US tutelage). The Japan Socialist Party was social democratic in nature and thus popular with a certain segment of the voting population, and overshadowed the Japanese Communist Party, who had experienced setback after setback during the immediate post-war American occupation. Inejiro Asanuma became a high profile figure in the Anti-Anpo movement, and was outspoken in his support for Maoist China. This angered right wing groups like the Great Japan Patriotic Party, of which Otoya Yamaguchi was a member. Here's the thing, though: Otoya Yamaguchi assassinated Inejiro Asanuma months after the Anpo Treaty was ratified. Nobusuke Kishi bamboozled the National Diet into voting for the treaty while they were still debating it. His home as well as the National Diet would later get raided by Zengakuren, who, among thousands of other demonstrators, were justifiably angry at his blatant manipulation of the democratic process. For many radicals in Japan, the Anti-Anpo Movement was a testament to the impotence of party politics, and also served as a catalyst for their very own New Left. Another thing to consider is that material conditions were on the rise, which had given way to a renewed sense of nationalism among others. This bolstered right wing groups, who placed a hard emphasis on militarism and would have stopped at nothing to preserve the Chrysanthemum Throne, the oldest monarchy in the world. /pol/tards love to ham up this assassination as if it single-handedly saved Japan from a communist revolution, when that could not be further from the truth. The revolution was already dead; killed by liberals just a few months prior, who have more or less ruled Japan under a "one-and-a-half party system" since 1955.
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>>2328 > genuinely remove the gaijin By selling Japan to China?
>>2342 That would make sense if male-pattern baldness was more common among Japanese men, but for some reason it's very rare in Japan compared to the West.
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Was he /ourguy/? Or has the years of consooming anime and video game about him turned my brain into mush?
>>2346 Japan has the highest male pattern baldness in all of Asia, over 25% of males experience it.
>>2348 Uh, strange. In my year in Japan I didn't really notice. In my country is like 39% so it's way more common. In Japan I've only see older men with male pattern baldness, while here is common even among younger people. >t. started suffering from male pattern baldness at 19 >>2347 He was a visionary.
>>2345 Even if that were the case, between the US and China one is certainly more gaijin than the other.
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>>2347 Anime and videogames seem to have twisted your perception of his hairline
>>2320 It is part of a video series made by Haku Zynkyoku, a weird Japanese fascist occultist.
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>>2353 ok thats pretty based
>>2351 It's said that when he was young he refused to adopt the top-knot of the samurai and dressed in a very eccentric manner, that's why everyone thought he was a fool.
>>2352 >>2353 Oh right, that guy. Complete fucking nutjob.
>>2344 >killed by liberals Why, of course.
>>2347 Ikko Ikki should've won, easily the most progressive social force at the time and place
>>2347 >consooming I had hopes not to see this expression outside altright circles.
Thanks for the answers. Now, I know this isn't what the thread is about but I think I could get some answers here. Someone please explain Nazi weebs to me. You know the sort I'm talking about. I see them all over the place all the bloody time and it's incredibly bewildering. I just don't get it. Is it just a huge joke that's going over my head?
>>2360 Neo-Nazis have an obsession with Japan in general because they see Japan as an example of a successful ethnostate and because of Japan's past alliance with fascist Germany and Italy. Fun fact: There is a semi-popular far right youtuber named Black Pigeon Speaks that constantly talks about how immigrants are destroying the West but he himself is an immigrant that lives in Japan
>>2361 It's cool how they always seem to ignore how Abe made it easier to import cheap labour from SEA while the JCP was against it.
>>2361 He insists on calling himself an "expat" rather than immigrant, trying to distance himself from the connotations he and his ilk have attached to the latter.
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>>2361 Nazis only like Japan because anime and because Japan, to be frank, is a non-entity in the stage of world politics. For them it's a quirky sight, a curiosity and somewhat like a cute pet they don't mind having around. If Japan were the size of China and had its steadily-growing amount of power, they wouldn't be so kind towards it, by which I mean "at all". And much like Germany's alliance with Japan was purely out convenience rather than genuine racial affinity (will they ever shut up about "Honorary"?) and had to be constantly micromanaged ("Nazi Racism Toward the Japanese" goes into this), so is their "love" for Japan, which seems to have its most apparent use as club for bashing other non-white races over the head.
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>>2361 The "boy I sure miss the Axis!" angle is fairly obvious, but that's completely apart from stuff like this.
>>2357 By the time Inejiro Asanuma was assassinated, the LDP already had a five year majority in the National Diet. His death was akin to desecrating a corpse and calling it victory. Sure, things might have been different had he survived, but not by much. The things he represented were antithetical to the kind of militancy that would come under Zengakuren.
>>2365 At some point I dont know if you will find a solid link between right wing beleifs and Japanese aesthetics that neatly tie the two together. Anime shit is popular in all sorts of fringe communities and groups online. I think maybe it boils down to Japan being the seconf largest media market/producer in the world, yet still decidedly 'Asian.' This means there is a ton of content and it is relatively easy to access, but it still presents as exotic or different (to Americans, at least)
>>2332 Well, this is the only book I can found right now: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01C7QWJP8/
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>>2303 There was a movie about samurai in the Edo period who showed up at lords' castles and asked to commit Harakiri in their courtyard, but were sent away with food and money-- basically a grift. The movie was called Harakiri. As bad as Feudal Japan and the Samurai's role in it was, it makes for some good kino. Post-war Japanese cinema is really good shit.
https://www.tofugu.com/japan/bushido/ Can anyone verify how much of this article is actually true? I'm not a japan expert but the TL;DR is that much of the stereotypes about Samurai being honorable warriors and loyal to the death was fiction made up after the fact and used by the Japanese government as propaganda for the west and to justify their own imperial rule during WW2
>>2370 Bushido was used to indicate the qualities that a true warrior was supposed to have, but of course each samurai interpreted it differently. The sengoku era was full of betrayals, turncoats and less than honorable individuals, but with some notable exceptions. Hell, Tokugawa won the battle of Sekigahara thanks to a traitor who switched side DURING the battle. During the edo period samurai didn't see much figthing and they started to stagnate as a class while merchants and artisans became richer and more prominent, Bushido became a way for samurai to remind to others and to themselves that they were still better than everyone else.
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>>2367 But you'd think that a group so apparently committed to the cause of white supremacy would have some reservations towards an entertainment medium like anime (and some indeed do; seeing them fling shite at each other over the subject isn't too rare). I'm sure places likes /pol/ and the like have their fair share of people that are just trying to be edgy but, still, it's a little too prevalent to not at least raise some eyebrows.
>>2345 that couldn't be further from the truth : the JCP was first a stalinist party with links to moscow, but was the first communist party to get his independence from the USSR during the 60's
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>>2367 I don't see how anime girls pictures and shitty anime memes constitute "Japanese aesthetics".
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>>2374 Well if you follow contemporary currents in Japanese art history, then that's exactly what it can mean.
>>2367 A lot of neo-nazis fantasize about the late Showa era for the same reason they fantasize about 1980s America. >>2372 You're right; Showa nostalgists are fervently anti-otaku while often being otaku themselves.
In the years 1894, 1900, and 1925 - The Japanese imperial government promulgated a series of laws known collectively as the ‘Peace Preservation Laws’. These laws were principally concerned with frustrating the organization of union, socialist, anarchist, and communist organizations for threatening the ‘Kokutai’. In the deepening imperial relations of the country, the Army expedition in China typified the extreme nationalism that came to be the emblem of this era in modern times. However, at this time, the Japanese government actively courted the inclusion of leftists in critical organizations such as the Showa Kenkyukai and Mantetsu. Even the most well-understood imperialist concept, the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere was the (nominal) conception of a Marxist intellectual. Why was the concept of Tenkō so critical for the Imperial authorities and structure at this point, when they had publicly declared these political elements to be traitorous? Why did they play such a massive role in an empire which they actively rejected in theory? Another interesting trend to account for in the nascent communist politics that existed in the Empire was the split between Rono-ha and Koza-ha factions, the former being an independent program arguing that Japanese material conditions had progressed to the state of embodying contemporary bourgeois property relations while the latter was a faction borne out of the support of the Soviet Union and the Third Internationale (Comintern) that stated that the Japanese Empire existed in semi-feudal conditions, owing to the oligarchical structure and foundations of the Meiji Restoration, and was thus an unfeasible thought to advocate for socialist development before a bourgeois revolution had taken place. The Koza-ha dominated JCP is what we know today as the Japanese Communist Party. Especially in the post-war era, they suffered renewed surveillance by the American occupational force, and were subject to the geopolitical weal of the other socialist states, to the detriment of the health of the party and the independent Japanese socialist tradition. Would love to hear peoples thoughts about these questions and considerations.
>>2377 Sorry for any bad english.
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>>2376 From my experience, what western chauvinists seem love about Showa, besides Japan's WWII rumble (because "fuck china"), is Japan's increasing westernization.
>>2377 Damn thats really intresting. Can you go a bit deeper as too what exactly was done to sabotage the communist party? Also japanease commie infighting seems to be a meme but was it really that serious ?
>>2298 >I just found this photograph btw. Samurai didn't look nearly as impressive as I thought they would, What the fuck kind of retarded statement is that? That photograph looks like every depiction of every samurai ever. If you want photos of samurai in armor search for that. >and that hairdo is "objectively ugly." Retarded take. >Was the Meiji restoration and "restoring power to the emperor" a good or bad thing in 18th century Japan for the peasants? That's a very ambiguous and open ended question. >It marked the upper class revolution that caused the samurai feudal system to transition into a capitalist system. Why are you calling it the samurai feudal system? Have you read anything about this subject. Is the fucking Daimyo and Shogun system. Samurai are just high ranking soldiers.
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>>2299 >hey could hack you to death in the streets for shit as retarded as not bowing in their presence, fuck them Not just could: did on a regular basis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiri-sute_gomen They enforced this rule on a British merchant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namamugi_Incident and the British blew up a whole town in retaliation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Kagoshima
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>>2382 They also tested their swords on random people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsujigiri Tsujigiri (辻斬り or 辻斬, literally "crossroads killing") is a Japanese term for a practice when a samurai, after receiving a new katana or developing a new fighting style or weapon, tests its effectiveness by attacking a human opponent, usually a random defenseless passer-by, in many cases during nighttime.[1] The practitioners themselves are also referred to as tsujigiri.[1]
>>2380 >what was done to sabotage the communist party I can talk about two specific respects in which the movement was externally hindered. 1. Threatening or even SEEKING TO ALTER the existing state structure and institutions, as well as the nebulous ideology that backed the monarchy as symbol and origin of state power, known collectively under the term 'Kokutai', was made a punishable offense of up to ten years hard labor. This was 1925, in the Taisho-jidai, and a cap on the events of the Anarchist-Communist cooperative agitation that had taken place since the 'Freedom and People's Rights' movements of the turn of the century - capping freedom of speech, assembly, and economic redress of grievances. These legal justifications were a post-hoc resolution of what had existed as material policy for many years before, that of violent coercion or defections. The existing structure of the Empire was most definitely aggressive and exploitative (internally and in foreign policy), but the faux anti-imperialist rhetoric, combined with rapid expansions of extralegal force and threat against intellectuals and agitators, led to a precipitous drop in open identification with the party. This certainly muted its effect in the turbulent Taisho democratic era, and the work of notable figures in Marxist economics and other adjacent figures in 'proletarian'-linked social spheres did much to exacerbate the general political campaign against the communists/anarchists. 2. Foreign interference in the party policy and affaires of the early JCP. The clandestine and furtive union of left factions that comprised the early JCP fielded a great wealth of theoretical contribution and debate on the conditions and requirements of socialist agitation in Japan happened to be, unfortunately, contemporaneous to the late 1920's consolidation and unified line of the pre-eminent international organization for communist parties, the Comintern. The demands of the fraternal socialist forces, predominantly the Soviet Union, to exemplify a line of thought that would place prominence on good relations with the CPSU and USSR, rebuke ideas of immediate organization or seizure of state institutions or power, cultivate additional 'right' thought and theory did much to drive a wedge in the party and jeopardize its already threatened legitimacy. The precarious nature of attaining monetary or materiel backing assured that the Koza-ha (Soviet backed faction, 'lecture' is its name) would predominate over any opposition group and could effectively control party politics. The expelled or disillusioned persons of the opposition faction Rono-ha (labor-farmer) were marginalized, purged, or left the party. This was primarily over a simple distinction of what form of capitalist property relations constituted the Japanese Empire at that time. The JCP, under Koza-ha, continued to suffer reprisals by the Tokkō, a special police auxiliary, but emerged from the war as perceived vindicated by the general malaise with war and militarism. Unfortunately, the Korean War came and further demands placed on the party by the Soviet Union and China to actively disrupt the American war effort by sabotage had failed to account for the atrophy of previous policy in the party. Already suspect by American occupation authorities, despite professed legality, the JCP would suffer schism and debilitating loss of confidence in its lack of independent program and reliance only on the legitimacy of Empire-era dissident status. This gradual effacement plagues the party even today, as the party does little meaningful work beyond cursory education. Sorry that took very long to write. The party does good work, too, but times are bleak.
>>2382 I want to caution, in the case of the two Edo-era incidents, that you too closely associate them with the general trend of the time, being that archival records and data are decidedly incomplete before the late 18th century. For the incidents you've brought up, it is important to mention the context of location (Satsuma Domain) and the time (1862). The promulgation of the unequal treaties of opening, which allowed western powers trading rights in select economic ports as well as preferential purchasing power/subsidies/extraterritoriality profoundly threatened the economic exclusivity previously enjoyed by Satsuma and Chōshū Domains, who, as primary conduits for Rangaku-related materials and western imports, controlled a great deal of influence that was suddenly threatened by Tokugawa Bakufu releasing all previous trade regulations. This, combined with the nationalistic uproar that perceived subjugation by Western powers (akin to the dreaded Opium war) was a profound threat to national sovereignty and the solvency of the existing polity. This lead to the emperor, largely a figurehead, to issue mock-abrogation of the treaties and to try to interfere with Shogunal policy. This was the basis of Sonnō-Jōi (Revere Emperor and Expel Barbarians), a nationalist-populist movement which helped catalyze the incident you're talking about. Interesting fact is the British would then ally with and supply materiel to the Satsuma-Chōshū forces, the supposedly nationalist faction, against the Tokugawa Bakufu, who was aided by the French Empire. >>2383 This 'Tsujigiri' was more a relic of the warring period, Sengoku, than of the Edo period. The social relations that persisted, at least in their orientation, were much different in the context of the Meiji Restoration (1867) than in the end of this period of time (~1602). Samurai, as a class, began to disintegrate with use of military modernization, though many of the samurai-class would feature prominently in Meiji oligarchy (1867-1889)
>>2385 >I want to caution, in the case of the two Edo-era incidents, that you too closely associate them with the general trend of the time, being that archival records and data are decidedly incomplete before the late 18th century. I dunno what this statement is supposed to mean. Are you saying that they didn't enforce Kiri-Sute-Gomen before that time? >Post Good information, and I'm aware of a lot of this stuff and more because I was once writing a story that partly took place in Japan during these years. I even have this obscure Harvard Press book on the period because I wanted to get some detailed information about the relations with France and England that weren't available online. >This was the basis of Sonnō-Jōi (Revere Emperor and Expel Barbarians), a nationalist-populist movement which helped catalyze the incident you're talking about. Nah they just killed him for disrespect in that particular moment. >Japanese reports accused Richardson of continuing to ride in the middle of the road, even trying to get between Shimazu's litter and his bodyguards. In Japan, the samurai had a legal right known as kiri-sute gomen which allowed them to kill anyone of a lower class for perceived disrespect, which would have justified the killing by Shimazu's retinue. The Japanese instanced Eugene Van Reed, an American who had dismounted and bowed before a daimyō's train, as evidence that the insolent attitude of the Britons (who did not dismount) caused the incident. Van Reed's conduct had appalled the Western community, who believed that Westerners should hold themselves with dignity before the Japanese, being at least the equal of any Japanese person. There were also later suggestions that Richardson whipped Chinese people while horseback riding in China, and according to the Japan Herald "Extra" of Tuesday 16 September 1862, he had been heard to say just before the incident, "I know how to deal with these people". Richardson's uncle was reportedly not surprised about his nephew's demise, but blamed him for being reckless and stubborn. Also second incident was a direct result from the first and the limeys stopped shooting at them like fish in a barrel as soon as they paid up: >Satsuma however later negotiated and paid £25,000 (which they borrowed from the bakufu and never repaid, due to the fall of the bakufu in 1869 and its replacement by the Meiji administration). They never produced or identified Richardson's killers, but despite this, the reparation received was enough to obtain an agreement by Britain to supply steam warships to Satsuma. So yes the surrounding historical context is interesting but both of the incidents are straight forward. Japanese feudal culture practices KSG on anybody, be they peasant or foreign merchant. Brits aren't about to let savages kill one of theirs without one-upping them.
>>2386 Ah, forgive me then. I did not read closely enough the articles provided.
>>2377 The GEACPS fascinates me in the way it deploys anti-colonialist talking points and ideas to justify imperial expansion. I had no idea about the Marxist origins of the term though. Who is the intellectual you refer to?
>>2388 The intellectual was an anti-militarist fellow traveller named Miki Kiyoshi (三木 清). The Showa Kenkyukai was a much more 'social and cultural' theory oriented organization to say those that dealt with the realpolitik of the empire. They were primarily a repository of meaningful theoretical background for state decisions, though they also made proposals for state-oriented planned economies, which largely points to their Marxist composition. The issue primarily being that these intellectuals were wholly beholden to the educational purview of the Imperial Japanese Empire and its authorities for academic review - though they could also have been true believers in the cause, themselves.
>>2347 >burning peasant rebels holed up in a monastery alive not epic nagashino was kinda epic though. just a little
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>>2390 also, anyone have any recommended reading on the various ikki? the Iga sokoku ikki in particular, I can't find shit about that in english at least. already downloaded pic related but haven't gotten too far yet
>>2298 Does anyone know where the "the Jew fears the Samurai" meme came from?
>>2392 Crazy Japanese conspiraboomer Zynkyoku Haku
>>2298 Yes, it was a progressive revolution from above, which is also characteristic to Russia, of Peter the Great and Catherine. Japan, eventually, turned into what it was under the influence of European Imperialism.
>>2312 >The Chinese language version of the site actually has a few more, though some of the Chinese translations of Kobayashi also seem to have Japanese in them and alternative page-to-page. A major medium of Marxist and Western concepts in China were translations from the Japanese, and the other one was translation from the French, as somehow the French Chinese diaspora was at the center of leftist movement. Mao himself read Japanese translations and authors early on.
>>2372 Most anime have escapist, idealistic elements. It arose after the 60s which had the fall of the leftist student movements, with help from the CIA, and the fall of Japan's cinema industry. With Japan's suicide-inducing work and education culture, a lot of the settings of anime take place in some idealist high school setting before they have to enter the "real" world. It's no wonder it's pretty popular there and even among the rest of the capitalist world. The characters are usually super powerful, popular, have a beautiful, unrealistic romantic interest, or have a harem. Most of these are made by disillusioned Japanese Gen Xers, but obviously things haven't changed there so new creators keep the genre evolving with "isekai" getting really popular in the early 2010s. It's a word that literally translate to escaping to another world. This is in contrast to someone like Miyazaki, whose as a former Marxist reflect environmental justice and opposition to imperialism. So a lot of these same reactionaries praising the system also feel the need to consume anime for escapism.
>>2396 Yeah I've noticed all these isekai lately, and so many of them literally involve the death of the main character. They exist in the normal neoliberal hegemony world, but then they fucking die and everything's better cause they gone to fantasy land. Fuck if that isn't the most miserable message imaginable: death is the only true escape.
Why are the working class in japan so cucked?
>>2398 It's a corporative state occupied by the USA.
>>2398 Because of a culture of class-collaborationism and service as well as the 60s-70s protests being crushed and capitalist consumerism and technological over-load leading to isolated selfish people who trust no-one.
Tell me about Japanese communist parties today. Also, how far is Japan from a revolution?
>>2401 Try to reach the horizon and see how far it is.
Old school Japanese Cinema > Anime that came after it
>>2396 >It arose after the 60s which had the fall of the leftist student movements How does this relate to Tezuka's obsession with Disney?
I vote that this thread go into /a/ when /a/ is made.
Anti-racist manifestation today in Shibuya https://twitter.com/Gregor_Wakounig/status/1272034013985665024
\>>2404 >Tezuka's obsession with Disney ?
>>2300 The emperor and the samurai were actually black men, but the man doesn't want you to know that. It's the greatest story never told. Muhammad Fard talked all about this back in the day. t.hotep gang
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>>2396 >This is in contrast to someone like Miyazaki, whose as a former Marxist reflect environmental justice and opposition to imperialism. So a lot of these same reactionaries praising the system also feel the need to consume anime for escapism. Spirited Away and Whisper of The Heart are both absolute Isekai. Most of the others are borderline Isekai as well. Most Ghibli shit is escapist feel good stuff like the ones you are trashing, even if they're less well made. But all fictional stories are escapist. What else would be the point? I guess even a horror pic, I guess to some people a nightmare is an exciting escape, I dunno.
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>>2333 Teenage fascists on /pol/ are stupid and poorly-read when it comes to history. The anti-intellectual character of their ill-defined ideology leads them to unwittingly say and do shit that benefits undermines the causes they allegedly support. /pol/ Nazis and alt-right guys in general are provocative without being subversive, as their beliefs don't actually threaten established power. Part of why I detest "trigger the libs" grifters like Ben Shapiro and Steven Crowder so much is that they portray themselves as counter-cultural renegades when in reality they're just defending the socio-economic status quo of neoliberal capitalism.
>>2409 >Most Ghibli shit is escapist feel good stuff Except it isn't? Isekai does not equal escapist. And just because some of them are more children oriented and thus more innocent (like Totoro) does not make this a universal rule. >all fictional stories are escapist Yeah, no. This is the kind of PoMo shit I detest, stop using words you don't understand.
Why doesn't Japan have a bigger actual communist presence? I don't know of any active groups, and their country is capitalist hell.
>>2412 Because their country is essentially a very big US aircraft carrier.
>>2412 >Why doesn't Japan have a bigger actual communist presence The Communist Party of Japan has the highest membership of any non-ruling communist party on earth, lmao, they're just cucked social democrats
>>2412 https://www.jcp.or.jp/english/2020what_jcp.html " JCP IN FIGURES Membership: Approximately 270,000 in 18,000 branches across the country. Newspaper: Newspaper Akahata (Red Flag) was launched in 1928 and is now published in both daily and weekly editions, with a combined readership of about 1 million. It has correspondents in 5 cities around the world: Beijing, Hanoi, Cairo, Berlin and Washington, D.C. Diet (parliament) members: 12 seats out of 465 seats in the House of Representatives (in the 2017 general election, the JCP received 4.4 million votes, or 7.91%) 13 seats out of 242 seats in the House of Councilors (in the 2019 election, the JCP received 4.48 million votes, or 8.95%). Local Assembly Members: The total number of JCP members in local assemblies is about 2662 (January 2020). "
>>2414 >>2415 That's why I asked about actual communists.
>>2416 Which you define as?
>>2416 Well Japan's laws due to their Fascists never really losing power are heavily anti-Communist. Any party that would have an explicitly 'non-revisionist' visible party-line would immediately get broken up, its members imprisoned, and its associates surveilled. Even as it stands, this Communist party that is basically SocDem gang (though Japanese Marxist tradition is weird and kind of its own thing) is heavily surveilled by the government. The surveillance is not only an in-the-open fact, but is legitimized by Japanese law, as the Communist Party has 'ties to the terrorist North Koreans' by virtue of being Communist. Many members of the party are quite well versed in theory, and certainly attempt to do what they can in the context of Japanese law; they aren't not 'real Communists.' They aren't actually spineless SocDems who have faith in Bourgeois Democracy and Capitalism, but they do suffer a bit of 'CPUSA Syndrome' in that even gaining enough power to build up their power is highly illegal. This results in the party being perceived as 'weak,' because it is weak; it's still the strongest party in the country, it's still serves as the best congregational organization for people with actually revolutionary views. In any case, actual on-the-ground moves by the party are not the sort of thing to be easily viewable on baka gaijin English language clearspace.
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Thoughts on this guy?
>>2418 Interesting, thank you
>>2419 Looks like Japanese Clinton
>>2419 Why does he look like he is made of wax in that picture?
>>2411 >And just because some of them are more children oriented and thus more innocent (like Totoro) does not make this a universal rule. What are you talking about? The only ones that aren't are Grave of The Fireflies and The Wind Rises. >Yeah, no. This is the kind of PoMo shit I detest, stop using words you don't understand. I think you are the one who doesn't understand words friendo. Use a dictionary.
>>2423 >The only ones that aren't are Grave of The Fireflies and The Wind Rises. <What is Nausicaa <What is Princess Mononoke Just stop >Use a dictionary unironically no u.
>>2422 picture looks resized and softened.
>>2425 >resized and softened like a flaccid penis
>>2299 Samurai also often had sex with young boys.
Always treat any pro-Japanese news or shows or music as vicious bourgeois propaganda designed to shame western workers into obedience. Imagine if the Germans elected the same far-right WW2 atrocity-denying party for 70 years like Japan does, imagine all the "germans=nazis" memes (which still exist anyway), the Japanese are just adorable hard-working people we should all admire. Westerners are just indifferent to japanese brutality because of the distance and the burger propaganda, while there are still some old people that remember the German and Italian invaders. So yeah, anime = porky propaganda to passify the working class and whitewash nazism and imperialism. Same goes for South Korea, Taiwan and Singapore of course but without the nazi parts.
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Honest opinions on this crazy feller?
>>2429 Forbidden colors is one of the worst books I've ever read.
>>2428 Yes, the Japanese animation industry has roots in Showa fascist recuperation of Constructivist film theory (imported from the Soviet Union) to create Disney-like propaganda films. But this unifying principle crumbled in the post-war occupation; so much in fact, it's worth noting that Osamu Tezuka was once a member of the Japanese Communist Party, and many more animators were active in the New Left movement throughout the 1960s and 1970s. Fact is, the Japanese government specifically subsidizing animated film and television that promotes a "Cool Japan" to international audiences is still a pretty recent phenomenon. I'm talking within the past 10-15 years; 20 if you want to get technical. Japan in the 1990s alone was busy debating on whether or not anime turned you into a child rapist serial killer and caused mass epileptic seizures, so I have trouble accepting that it's all just "porky propaganda"
>>642303 >Osamu Tezuka was once a member of the Japanese Communist Party That's probably why Dororo's setting was so good, instead of romanticizing the samurai and their warlords he didn't shy away from showing the brutal realities commoners faced in feudal Japan during the sengoku period.
>>2431 >Japan in the 1990s alone was busy debating on whether or not anime turned you into a child rapist serial killer and caused mass epileptic seizures For those interested: search for "The Otaku Murderer" and "Electric Soldier Porygon Incident"
>>2432 Yeah! Tezuka's politics can be hard to pin down though. He started his own magazine after seeing the success of Garo, which had become known for publishing another leftist ninja/samurai manga, Kamui Den and other more avant-garde stuff. Hell, judging by their respective publication dates, Kamui might have even influenced Tezuka to make Dororo, but I can't say for certain.
>Samurai thread this is just a /jp/ LARP thread
>>2434 Hmm, now I have to read Kamui Den.
>>2435 Were you expecting a discussion about bushido? Zen? Martial arts?
>>2435 Samurai worship is reactionary.
>>2437 Yes?
>>2439 Ah well, that's fair.
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>>2441 >katana stances nicu
Should this thread go on >>>/anime/ ?
>>2443 More like >>>/hobby/
>>2444 >>2443 How bout both
>>2445 >thatsnothowitworks.jpg
>>2444 >>2443 Technically this would go to >>>/hist/ if that board existed. Instead it should go to >>>/edu/
THE THREAD THAT WILL NOT DIE 🇯🇵🇯🇵🇯🇵
Mods please move this thread to either >>>/edu/ >>>/hobby/ or >>>/anime/
>>2448 Never
>>2449 >moved thanks Admin!
>>2448 It cannon die, or it will bring dishonor on our cow
>>2418 >yfw when Juchegang liberates Japan
>>3905 >Koreans liberating Japan Now that would be something to see
Reposting from the >>>/anime/ Q&A thread I have a question about Jiraiya Gouketsu Monogatari. Naruto made the character pretty well known and popular, however the original story is pretty old, and I was wondering how well known the character was in Japan prior to Naruto's popularization of him. Besides the 1921 silent film (video 1 related) I found the following references in media before Naruto got published - Jiraiya- A character that appears in the novel " Jiraiya Ninpocho " by Futaro Yamada, which began serializing in September 1964 . A character with the name of Tsunade also appears in the work. - Jikaminari也- 1966 publication of Toei of special effects era feature film " The Magic Serpent hero of". Tsunade also appears. - Commander Jiraiya- A character that appears in the TV anime " Invincible Steel Man Daitan 3 " broadcast from June 1978 to March 1979 . - Magnetic Raiya- The main character of Toei 's special effects drama " Sekai Ninja Sen Jiraiya, " which was broadcast from January 1988 to January 1989 . - Jiraiya (read "Jiraia") The character in the Hudson game "Far East of Eden" series and the main character of the first game " Far East of Eden ZIRIA ". Characters with the names of Tsunade and Orochimaru also appear in the work. - Jirayan- A character that appears in the TV anime "Karakuri Kengoden Musashi Road" that was broadcast from October 1990 to September 1991. - Ninja Black Jiraiya- Ninja who appears in Toei's special effects drama " Ninja Sentai Kakuranger "broadcast from February 1994 to February 1995. A setting called the descendant of Jiraiya who appears in "Jiraiya Goketsutan".

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