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Pedagogy and /leftypol/ Comrade 04/17/2020 (Fri) 17:25:33 No. 1136
Are there any teachers here? If so, how do you work with your curricula to insert your chosen beliefs? And what is the most based methodology and pedagogy? >t. Primary School, Y 4-5, we play "Red Leader" which is basically capture the flag but with special rules, and I put up lots of posters about "working together" and "team work".
>>1136 grad student, I picked the wrong field. Curriculum is the class I’m in now and it’s awful. I did a practicum course and I found everything very restrictive. The whole teamwork thing is nice but will be recuperated into the language of the managers on the one hand and subverted by the real pressures towards individualism on the other. How and why did you get into this field OP and how do you stand it? I do biology btw.
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>>1140 >How and why did you get into this field OP and how do you stand it? How? I started tutoring for extra money growing up and, given my wide range of interests, decided to pursue a career where I get to both learn all kinds of stuff and help people. Why? I was inspired by based teachers growing up who encouraged excitement in learning and who could explain things "out of the box". Add to that, as mentioned, my wide range of interests and no other career made as much sense. How do I stand it? Barely. The administrative bullshit that the office is meant to do (mother fuckers I'm here to teach, not do your qualitative research), the bureaucracy (report to X, you needs the go ahead from Y, but Z is a ladder climber so won't do it), and the politician pushing for better numbers with no regards to my students actual educational outcomes grate on me. And yet I keep coming back because, despite the few little shits who should be gulag'd for others well being and safety as they're beyond redemption (worsened by their home shituation), when it goes well and you see the kids "get it" it's a rush. Plus at least 30% of the day is spent playing games or doing creative stuff which is dope. Parents are hands down the worst thing about it though, and I swear they're dumber and dumber every year which makes it harder to get their kids up to speed. One girl had never seen a book in her fucking life until she came to my class because her parents "Didn't see the point". Now sometimes I have to feed one or two of them because they're so poor, and one kid I bought shoes for because his mum sold his other pair for meth. It's a mixed bag, but I, as lame as it sounds, feels right. That being said I'm going to transfer schools eventually to get more experience, then open my own because fuck admin, fuck bureaucrats, and fuck regressive politicians who only care about Goodhart's Law to get more power.
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>>1143 >Never seen a book in their life JESUS FUCKING CHRIST
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>>1147 Bruh I don't want to get too far in to it, but the dark side of being in education means there's a lot of shit your average person/job doesn't need to deal with that we're exposed to. And it all involves kids. We have a special course we're required to do regarding "self care". About 50% of it is "You're going to hear/see/be told/confided in child abuse. Here's how *not* to crack and pulverize the parent's/uncles head in and use appropriate services instead..."
>>1143 > One girl had never seen a book in her fucking life until she came to my class because her parents "Didn't see the point". Not even the Bible?
>>1158 Would that really surprise you at this point?
>>1143 are you a bong? you mention a wide range of interests, so you're not a subject-teacher, you're an educator of younger grades and teach diverse subjects?
>>1168 >you're an educator of younger grades and teach diverse subjects? Correct. Different system, but essentially because of the school's structure as a primary teacher >yes, teacher, not that I have anything against educators but I didn't study for four years to be passed off as "just" an educator yes I'm rustled... I teach across everything, while the other subject-teachers specialise in their chosen topics but cover more grades (I only teach Y4-5 but teach everything, they may only teach one or two subjects but teach say Y1-6). So I have a grade Y4-5 understanding of pretty much everything, which typed out sounds funny but when you speak to some parents... Oh god... They don't even know what a Phrasal Verb is.
>>1160 I mean usually that sorta people are Christfags.
Paulo Freire- Pedagogy of the Oppressed is one of the greatest leftist books of all time.
>Are there any teachers here? Not a teacher but I am studying to be one. >If so, how do you work with your curricula to insert your chosen beliefs? I kinda hope to be able to run the class democratically if the student's will allow it. Does anyone have experience doing that? I haven't had an opportunity to try it out and I've only been able to find a couple examples. >And what is the most based methodology and pedagogy? idk, define 'based'
>>1343 I'll give that read. Do you happen to have a file of it? >>1346 >Not a teacher but I am studying to be one. Noice. What's your specialisation? >Does anyone have experience doing that? I haven't had an opportunity to try it out and I've only been able to find a couple examples. I have in a limited sense (given there are still legal obligations). We use a system similar to how Australia elects it's politicians, preferential and weighted representation. It works well as everyone gets more or less the things they're willing to accept and work with/towards. >idk, define 'based' The one you feel personally is your ideal one, though you could have more than one.
>>1362 >Noice. What's your specialisation? Mathematics and minoring in general science education. Probably the least flexible major but I hope to make it work and make the class bearable for all. >We use a system similar to how Australia elects it's politicians, preferential and weighted representation. Like students vote on class 'policy' like how tests are run or how the class is organised? Or do they elect a student to make policy for them lol? You wouldn't happen to be in Perth? >The one you feel personally is your ideal one, though you could have more than one. Idk there's only been one which I haven't despised and that was Alfie Kohn. They all irk me though with their unwavering faith that kids have to be forced through the education system, without ever realising how fundamentally broken it all is.
>>1408 >You wouldn't happen to be in Perth? haha w-why do you ask? >Alfie Kohn I'll check him out.
>>1414 idk, I'm guessing you're in Australia like me with copying Australia's electoral system, curious more than anything. If you are in Perth we've more than likely crossed paths during activism and if you're in SAlt I'd have a guess as to who you are.
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>>1408 >Mathematics and minoring in general science education. Probably the least flexible major but I hope to make it work and make the class bearable for all. High demand area though, so more likely to get permanency. >>1408 >Like students vote on class 'policy' like how tests are run or how the class is organised? Organised imo given that then tends to flow to "policy" which, inevitably, leads to some being elected to act on behalf of X number and of those some elected to represent the class as a whole. Sort of a Alexander Sutherland Neill kind of thing. >>1408 >without ever realising how fundamentally broken it all is. True that. It's measured in decades but is world changing. Keep 'em dumb and they'll vote LNP too one day :\ What would you change about our education system curricula-wise, and structurally do think? Top four of each say.
>>1431 >High demand area though, so more likely to get permanency. Big reason why I chose it. Looking forward to being able to travel without much worry. Also looking forward to being able to eventually work and live somewhere where I can have a decent sized garden. >What would you change about our education system curricula-wise, and structurally do think? Top four of each say. In terms of the curriculum I'd definitely like to see it become more holistic. Our economy is gonna be really shaken with climate change and I expect/hope that communities will become more independent. So teaching kids the basics of all trades, permaculture, having D&T classes actually teach D&T, having maths being taught as a byproduct of work that needs doing, etc. I'd love if the curriculum wasn't so formal. Like say there's a problem with some solar panels in the community so the students are taken over to see the problem and help fix it (with guidance of course). Same thing could happen if some fruit trees got sick, get the kids to go out, try and diagnose and hit the books to find a solution. Similar to how education happens in indigenous communities traditionally, shit needs to be done so take the young ones out to learn how to do the shit. Play while learning also become so much more likely. I just think that because our economy requires such specialized knowledge sets that teaching this stuff is hard to ground in a task and so it is inevitable that kids will be alienated from the learning process. Student centered learning only goes so far until it hits the brick wall of the requirements set by the curriculum.
Does anyone have good literature on art education for secondary schools/ class five to ten and upwards? Would very much appreciate it. (Haven't finished uni yet, but I hope soon TM)
>>1448 "Art" is bourgeois. Teaching art doubly so. Proletarians are about expression, not art.
>>1448 Where's your country anon? Different countries have usually got different focuses before I can recommend any. >>1449 No.
>>1449 >"Art" is bourgeois <everything i don't like is bourgeois
>>1449 wut
>>1450 I'll take anything that is good. From theories to fully fledged session material. I'm trying to broaden my horizon on any subject in this regard. Sculpting is the field where I'm probably have the greatest challenge to come up with meaningful lessons. But if you have anything good, just drop it, noatter which subject. Classes 5 to 13 is it for my case.
>curricula insert your chosen beliefs Don't do this. Education is always meritocratic. It has nothing to do with democracy or justice. Teach them the joy of learning, for them to attain intellectual mastery. Sounds easy but it's actually hard to do. Knowledge is unfortunately a regime of representation, but it's neutral in itself. It's something you are ethically forbidden to meddle in politically, lest you want everything to turn into bloody politics.
>>1510 Out-fucking-standing stuff
>>1514 >Education is always meritocratic. Have you seen what's happening? It's all good and well, but the idea that politics doesn't have a place in education is naive. I don't want to burden students either with the worries of the world, nor turn them in to political sectarians, but look at the fucking state of it all. The motherfuckers pouring in the money know full well what they're doing and as educators we surely can't idly stand by and let it happen.
>>1514 >Education is always meritocratic I wish it were so, but it certainly isn't
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The American/Anglo School System is just Prussian Serfdom. The documentary "Human Resources" covers a lot about the Prussian school system (among other topics): http://metanoia-films.org/human-resources/ Here's the trailer for it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHNdPp_TOFs This is all the more revealed in how amazingly porky just went mask off and openly treats students like disposable workers in the past months: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-college-cases-tracker.html
>>5057 link for just the vid https://player.vimeo.com/video/102686111 i think unless you block google ajax the vids arent present? or is it just my shitty browser?
>>5087 >>5057 Interdasting, thank I'll give them a watch.
>>1450 >>1451 >>1498 There's a difference between art and expression. Cave paintings, mandalas, sketches on a napkin, graffiti, etc. those are all forms of human expression. "Art" is something people pay for in the 21st century, "art" is a commodity. What is "art" is decided by a group of people, usually those who stand to benefit from the charade. That is why there are stories of people examining fallen objects in art galleries, as if they were a piece, just because people saw it in an art gallery. Is a urinal art or a thing we piss on? Who the fuck knows, no one will ever know, just fucking give in and go with it. Art, art, art, everyone is a fucking artist. People want to be "artists", people call themselves "artists", what the fuck is an artist? Purely a worker who makes the "art" commodity, but justifies it with bullshit and charges for it. The poor sod making alternators in a factory can't sell you it as a modernist piece that is sure to bring your art deco living room together and impress all your turtle neck friends over a glass of Tesco chardonnay. Fuck art and fuck artists. As I said, self-expression is proletarian. Go paint some anti-government slogans in red paint on the side of a building, and you will have created more "art" than 99% of the shit made in studios. Why do you think Banksy's "art" sells so much? Because the people behind the Banksy project were smart and they packaged their "art" as genuine self-expression, they didn't abandon the gallery, they declared the outside to be the gallery, and the bullshit they sell you is "authenticity". Banksy has several movies and a hotel in Israel, they're porky as fuck but they are great at making a show and making you believe it is not "art".
>>5130 You're on the right track but you're wrong. It's not 'fuck artists' it's fuck pseduointellectuals. Do you think Rembrant wasn't an artist? Or Michelangelo or Van Gogh? The problem isn't "art is subjective" or "art is a commodity", because those aren t inherently true. ART involves self-expression but also involves environment, and many other objective things as well as subjective interpretations. Capitalism has taken this and MADE it a commodity and and MADE it into something that is subjective and undefined, because modern pop-culture and hipster shit is good money and promotes confusion among the masses.
>>1343 yes. I thinkmost people have it filed away as "this is just for leftists who are teachers", but it should be essential reading for everyone on the left, especially the people who have forgotten that the journey is part of the destination
>>5140 I'll give it a read. Any complimentary texts?
One thing that I struggle with as an educator is that institutional education is indeed "meritocratic" in the BAD sense: in itself education is liberating, people can get more knowledgeable and skeptical and many other good things, but schools are also constantly involved in ranking people and assigning them life choices in the capitalist hellscape. Even if this were a pure reflection of inherent ability and effort and had nothing to do with parents' class backgrounds or whatever, the whole process would feel pretty fucking scummy. This doesn't feel as bad as it feels good to lead people in education itself, but I also don't know how to deal with it, at least as an individual teacher.
>>5473 what ive seen from being in school and having coolish teachers is like: having assignments that get a binary "did it" or "didnt do it" grade, so its not so much about ranking and shit or judging, and lots of stuff thats not directly graded, like group discussions and shit, and assigning problems that make people think or stretch their knowledge and critical thinking. Like dont give answers then the question, give the question and have them come up with answers. Like it doesnt help much but from what ive heard from ppl and seen personally, a good teacher really can impact the course of someone's life, and its really just important to teach them how to think and help them want to learn again
>>5482 how do I learn how to think in order to teach how to think?
>>5487 niceu desu ne
STEM TA -college I don't insert my chosen beliefs, because it's a fucking science class. I am biased towards certain science stuff but there's nothing I can do as a TA to democratize the class. Nor would I want to try to "redpill" them, let them sort out the world themselves with the science skill I give them. They'll figure it out, after all, who's killing the world? It's porky.
>>5527 I mean, obviously in an area like science class one can't crypto them (and nor should one). I suppose really it's only possible in Arts :\
>>1136 >Are there any teachers here? I am training/in training/doing my first year of teaching rn. >If so, how do you work with your curricula to insert your chosen beliefs? I study a non-academic STEM field (programming) so there isn't much room for politics. Its a vocational education (level below college) so the most I can do is try and dispell the idea that these kids are "just too dumb" and "incapable of making it in higher education".
>>5140 >>5487 Thanks I will check it out, seems interesting.
>>1449 Shut the fuck up. I wish I had a fucking teacher that knew the first thing about actual art skill who had thaught me instead of only art history.
>>5564 >the most I can do is try and dispell the idea that these kids are "just too dumb" and "incapable of making it in higher education" Very based. gl
>>5564 >so there isn't much room for politics EFF, FSF, etc. would say otherwise.
>>5580 I will try to push FOSS but im not a FOSS purist since its not always the best tool for the job.
>>5594 >not always the best tool for the job Besides graphics editing, where else?
>>5596 Besides? Graphics editing is perfectly fine with Free Software only.
>>5599 I thought GIMP is still behind Photoshop and other Adobe software.
>>5607 GIMP is fucking trash, unless youre doing photo doctoring things like Krita got you covered, and I think ghibli open sourced its internal animation software too.
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not a teacher, but I had a very based teacher in the 6th grade. He didn't follow the curriculum most of the time and instead just talked about whatever he wanted. Taught me about a bunch of random things like the partition of India, Khmer rouge, child labor in the 3rd world, Nelson Mandela, sykes-picot plan and much more. Not sure if he was a comrade but he was definitely a leftist and started me on my political journey. I would suggest to any teachers in this thread just go off the curriculum, as long as its interesting the students won't care.
You shouldn't try to influence kids, let them figure out their own opinions just like you did.
>>5902 >You shouldn't try to influence kids >let them figure out their own opinions just like you did. Oh you poor fool, so full of idealism. Do you not realise that your opinions are almost completely comprised of the influence of others? You did not find the truth on your own, you we're influenced and shown many paths by those around you, and so too should every leftist expose people to their ideas and influence them to adopt them.
>>5907 >everyone is influenced by others >so you should shower kids with propaganda Right.
>>5909 Yes? Isnt that the whole point of political activism?
>>5921 Maybe if you're a sociopath with zero morals.
>>5932 What? Do you think the bullshit they get taught in school now isnt propaganda? Have you ever taken a highschool economics or history class?
>>5933 I don't believe that anybody here would contest that those are propaganda. The question isn't what the ruling class does, it's what we should do. Now it's possible that there's some talking past each other and that people are using words (like "propaganda" or "influence") differently. But I would say that (1) teachers can never be truly neutral even if they try (for instance they must select what materials students are presented with, and so on), but also that (2) there's a difference between teaching students to think particular conclusions and to think critically and , and that there's a danger in pursuing the former to the degree that it harms the latter. The goal of critical thinking isn't to produce a truly "independent" thinker. A smart, reflective, curious, critical person who happens to be gentry in Song dynasty China is going to think a lot differently than a smart, reflective, curious, critical person who works in a meatpacking plant in nineteenth-century Argentina - or whatever. But their common qualities also mean that they're not just going to blindly and automatically produce what's given to them, either. They're going to, ideally, look at a wide array of what's in front of them and produce something new out of it. And we need this as a species a lot more than we need people who can repeat a slogan - even a *correct* slogan - for a teacher before going on to repeat another slogan for another teacher.

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