>I don't understand where people get this notion that Rafiq wants to "destroy nature" and kill all life that isn't human.
>Let all the stupid animals, the plants die. Who gives a shit?
>We Communists are well aware that we would bring about the destruction of the "environment" - we're not in on the secret of ecology worship.
>My point of paving the planet with concrete was to make the point that more then ever today we need to conform the Earth to the needs of the human species, and that entails a radical geological transformation.
>This bullshit nature-worship garbage never entered into the imagination of any Communist movement, not in 1871, not during Social democracy, and not during the Comintern era. It is a particularly new perversion of the counter-culture. It is a legacy that will not only not be present in a Communist movement of the 21st century, it will be fought bitterly, it will be smashed and the discourse that opposes it will be enshrined in political action itself.
>Ecology is the new opium of the masses
<a science is opium of the masses
>The point is that doing nothing, or treating nature like some actual thing we ought to respect is anti-scientific
<apparently "science" gives you values?
this guy is a retard, stop defending him. He has valid points against certain strains of environmentalist stuff, and then perverts it for his own weird utopian thinking that isnt based in reality or what people even want. Yeah its dumb to fucking only care about butterflies and wolves and shit, and not also care about mosquitos and leeches. That doesnt invalidate all of our actual knowledge about the environment (supposedly this scientific knoledge is just opium though), and it definitely doesnt justify blind tech worship and faith that we can just engineer all problems away after creating them, when there were already solutions. god damn
Anyways yes anyone who is okay with exploiting and destroying all nature DOES want to "give the axe" to many things. Our whole society is based on this. We are constantly choosing what dies and what goes extinct and which places will be toxic for thousands of years. We are always "giving the axe" to things. So no, not "nobody gets the axe". Rafiq is pretty explicit that anything that could die to serve Humanity SHOULD die. Fuck that bullshit. Pure exploitation mindset, and he's fighting against fucking windmills. His enemies arent in front of him, just comrades who arent hopped up on tech worship and actually seem to know the facts of what is possible better than him. Ideaology cant be a substitute for actual scientific knowledge.
Nothing has "intrinsic" value, but why should we allow some idea of "maybe in the future people will actually like this" to dictate what we do now? Why not just allow our values and emotions to guide what kind of world we want to live in? Like whats the benefit of putting someone else's values in place of ours, or even some fictional person or people's values?? i dont really get it. "It will be what society wants it to be", but isnt the point of radicals that we change society to fit what we see as better? Saying "society will choose" seems like a cop out.
Message too long. Click
to view full text.